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    Nowadays, it's mostly boring, empty whines from boring, empty people.

    At least, if the typical university feminist is anything to go by.
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    I dislike modern-day feminism, it seems like a bunch of crazed lunatics attacking men (and some women) for ridiculous reasons along with fighting for "free speech" but also arguing against it.The suffragettes were brilliant women though.
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    Frankly, I find that the ideals of modern feminism are just based on first world problems...

    If feminism is the movement that believes that 'women should be equal to men' then I do not agree with feminism.
    The very wording implies that men are at a standard that women need to reach (and for even more extreme feminists - a standard that must be overcome)and apparantly the way to reach this standard is to not let their daughters wear dresses or love Cinderella. They think to be equal they need to be doing the same jobs as men and live the same lives as men.

    no!

    I do think that men and women should be equal.
    But Equality does not mean that they are necessarily doing the same jobs or wearing the same clothes or liking the same things. It means both men and women have the oppertunites to live the life they want to live.
    I wholeheartedly believe that an uneducated, poor, dress-wearing but happy housewife is equal to the President of America... because they are both human!

    Girls should have a chance to go to school, not because they are women, but because they are human and its their right. And they should be able to decide not to study and dedicate their lives to being home-makers not because they are women, but because they are human and its their right.

    Everyone should have the same chances and the right to live the life they are content with - because they are people! Regardless of gender, race, religion, age, class etc.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Well the problem with that is when feminists want to change the legal system to guilty until proven innocent, when write articles about putting men in camps, say that PIV sex is always rape, say kill all men and ignore countries where women are actually oppressed it suggests that they don't care about equality they want to ***** and moan about their own lives rather than make society fairer.

    You may also note that I have stated that it isn't 1st or 2nd wave feminists who actually had something to fight against but 3rd intersectional wave which doesn't care about women it cares about its all about who comes top of its victim pyramid, I didn't hear 1 feminist complain about cologne and I heard them come out to defend to abusers.

    How can modern 3rd wave intersectional feminism be about equality when it does not treat people the same?

    It also operates on the assumption I am more privileged than the queen, explain how that is?

    Maybe you should stop lying to yourself.
    All you've provided there is anecdote after anecdote. I'm fed up of having to reply with the exact same response to ignorant posts that I always find myself faced with.

    I actually cannot be bothered, just look through my post history. You judge an entire social movement by the voices of its extreme minority members. NO different to how people have used the terrorist excuse to hate an entire religion. Or the violent excuse to hate an entire race. Or the 'scrounger' excuse to hate everyone on income support.

    Although your avatar makes me suspect you aren't innocent of committing any of those prejudice assumptions.

    You have your own agenda, so carry on listening to what you want to hear, and ignore the rest.

    I actually make this post daily.
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    (Original post by WhereIsTheLove??)
    Frankly, I find that the ideals of modern feminism are just based on first world problems...

    If feminism is the movement that believes that 'women should be equal to men' then I do not agree with feminism.
    The very wording implies that men are at a standard that women need to reach (and for even more extreme feminists - a standard that must be overcome)and apparantly the way to reach this standard is to not let their daughters wear dresses or love Cinderella. They think to be equal they need to be doing the same jobs as men and live the same lives as men.

    no!

    I do think that men and women should be equal.
    But Equality does not mean that they are necessarily doing the same jobs or wearing the same clothes or liking the same things. It means both men and women have the oppertunites to live the life they want to live.
    I wholeheartedly believe that an uneducated, poor, dress-wearing but happy housewife is equal to the President of America... because they are both human!

    Girls should have a chance to go to school, not because they are women, but because they are human and its their right. And they should be able to decide not to study and dedicate their lives to being home-makers not because they are women, but because they are human and its their right.

    Everyone should have the same chances and the right to live the life they are content with - because they are people! Regardless of gender, race, religion, age, class etc.
    It's not about forcing women into working when they don't want to. It's about there being the option for women to work in male-dominated fields, without having to jump over the social and attitudinal barriers that males don't have.

    A male student enters a STEM subject, no one bats an eyelid, its expected. But in order for a woman to do the same, she has to surpass expectations, go against the grain. It only seems a small issue for many, but anyone who has a basic understanding of psychology understands the sheer force of societal expectations on behaviour. You only need to read about self-fulfilling prophecy (which is a very short term barrier but indicative of long term influence) to understand this.

    I don't think that's merely a 1st World Problem to me. And do you know what, even if it is, that doesn't diminish it's status of being an issue. Like I've previously said on this site, many children raised in areas classed as deprived in our country have it lucky compared to children born into African poverty for example, but that doesn't make their experiences any less of a concern for me.

    Concern and compassion isn't a finite resource, you know.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    All you've provided there is anecdote after anecdote. I'm fed up of having to reply with the exact same response to ignorant posts that I always find myself faced with.

    I actually cannot be bothered, just look through my post history. You judge an entire social movement by the voices of its extreme minority members. NO different to how people have used the terrorist excuse to hate an entire religion. Or the violent excuse to hate an entire race. Or the 'scrounger' excuse to hate everyone on income support.

    Although your avatar makes me suspect you aren't innocent of committing any of those prejudice assumptions.

    You have your own agenda, so carry on listening to what you want to hear, and ignore the rest.

    I actually make this post daily.
    How can a extreme member of a movement apparently for equality want to put a group in a camp?

    How is my post ignorant? Is it just because I disagree with you?

    So you suspect that anyone who likes their nation and has pride in it are prejudiced that sounds like you are quite prejudice yourself, I changed my avatar because of the referendum result do you want to call me those things because of that and show your prejudices again?

    I judge a social movement by their actions not what they say they stand for, you can throw around a dictionary definition if you like but it doesn't make it true is North Korea a democratic people's republic?

    You enjoy pushing your agenda as well.

    Good for you maybe you will convince some people who can't be bothered to look up the reasons why a pay gap looks to exist (more time off, lower paid professions and lower paying degrees) to support your agenda.
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    Well I for one am not a fan of feminism. I'm sorry I want our men to be masculine again and not be afraid of being real menly men and doing things for us ladies without fear of insulting our intelligence. I want chivalry and gentlemen behaviour back. I don't want men to be emasculated. I think men and women are equal in different ways we shouldn't try to make them replicas
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    (Original post by kai-jean)
    I am all for egalitarianism (equality of all sexes not just women) but I despise
    feminism some people use it to gain unnatural power over men
    1. some females marry men and then divorce them taking the mans life insurance
    and making the man pay alimony leaving her rich and him broke
    2. some females abuse men saying you cant hit me I'm a girl as an excuse leaving the man defenceless
    3. women complain about the pay gap and then expect to have a maternity leave

    where is the logic in that overall feminism is the grunge of society and needs to die
    a very few amount of women do the first thing. most self respecting women don't.
    i agree with your second point
    your third point is silly. Not all women want to have children so yes it is unfair if my employer pays me less because s/he assumes that I will have a child at some point- it is a generalisation.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You are not in any way, an "egalitarian".

    People like you just use that term to justify strong anti-feminism, borderline misogynsitic ideologies.

    It's the equivalent of saying "I'm not a racist but"... Or "I can say this [generic racist comment] because I have a friend who is black".

    You are not an egalitarian.
    EGALITARIAN=believing in or based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities
    I am not misogynistic I don't believe all women share a certain trait and I
    don't believe all women are bad
    I believe SOME females do these things if you read back my comment I
    explicitly say SOME

    and all of my points are for equality because in society right now women
    have double standards which wreck the lives of men on a daily basis
    so I believe women and men should have an equal stance in society hence=EGALITARIAN
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    It's not about forcing women into working when they don't want to. It's about there being the option for women to work in male-dominated fields, without having to jump over the social and attitudinal barriers that males don't have.

    A male student enters a STEM subject, no one bats an eyelid, its expected. But in order for a woman to do the same, she has to surpass expectations, go against the grain. It only seems a small issue for many, but anyone who has a basic understanding of psychology understands the sheer force of societal expectations on behaviour. You only need to read about self-fulfilling prophecy (which is a very short term barrier but indicative of long term influence) to understand this.

    I don't think that's merely a 1st World Problem to me. And do you know what, even if it is, that doesn't diminish it's status of being an issue. Like I've previously said on this site, many children raised in areas classed as deprived in our country have it lucky compared to children born into African poverty for example, but that doesn't make their experiences any less of a concern for me.

    Concern and compassion isn't a finite resource, you know.
    Ouch.

    I never wanted to imply feminism was "forcing people to work" I am sorry if it came across like that! I was just ranting about the way some feminists (not all) view women with different ideals and priorities to them as some kind of stigma.

    Like you said "its about there being the option for women to work in male-dominated fields..." etc.
    I am just saying that this option is their right because they are people, not just because they are women.

    And of course I am not implying that suffering children in countries like this do not deserve the same concern! In fact I think I did say that everyone should have the same oppertunities because they are human!
    My point was that some feminists get so caught up in the problems they are dealing with and from their point of view, that they forget that others may want different things.
    For example I have seen loads of comments recently by people saying that the burkini is anti-feminist because obviously they are forced etc.
    But of course this does not apply to all women who cover themselves.
    I actually met a girl who started covering herself even though no one else in her family does because she loved her religion and was proud to show everyone she was a muslim.
    And yet people still thought she was forced and that it is un-feminist that she should need to cover herself.
    And I do not think that is fair!

    And it hurts that your interpretations of my thoughts should give you enough information about me to assume that I don't know that concern and compassion isn't a finite resource.
    I do know
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    It's not about forcing women into working when they don't want to. It's about there being the option for women to work in male-dominated fields, without having to jump over the social and attitudinal barriers that males don't have.

    A male student enters a STEM subject, no one bats an eyelid, its expected. But in order for a woman to do the same, she has to surpass expectations, go against the grain. It only seems a small issue for many, but anyone who has a basic understanding of psychology understands the sheer force of societal expectations on behaviour. You only need to read about self-fulfilling prophecy (which is a very short term barrier but indicative of long term influence) to understand this.

    I don't think that's merely a 1st World Problem to me. And do you know what, even if it is, that doesn't diminish it's status of being an issue. Like I've previously said on this site, many children raised in areas classed as deprived in our country have it lucky compared to children born into African poverty for example, but that doesn't make their experiences any less of a concern for me.

    Concern and compassion isn't a finite resource, you know.
    I go to school in Central London, and it is a very good school. We were able to pick our a levels freely. Almost all my female friends chose either English, Psychology or Sociology for an a level, as opposed to Physics. They had the choice and they still chose to not go into STEM. They didn't have to climb a mountain to do a STEM subject, they simply had to put a cross on a form. I personally chose to do Chem and Bio ( I'm a girl under the same apparent 'societal pressures'). There may well be pressures but nowadays especially in the UK, women have so much opportunity and still refuse to take them- who do we blame?
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    a very few amount of women do the first thing. most self respecting women don't.
    i agree with your second point
    your third point is silly. Not all women want to have children so yes it is unfair if my employer pays me less because s/he assumes that I will have a child at some point- it is a generalisation.
    Except that isn't why on average a woman earns less on average they work less hours, take worse degrees and go into lower paid professions
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    a very few amount of women do the first thing. most self respecting women don't.
    i agree with your second point
    your third point is silly. Not all women want to have children so yes it is unfair if my employer pays me less because s/he assumes that I will have a child at some point- it is a generalisation.
    yes I agree that is why I said some females not all

    but for my third point I didn't mean the pay gap exists because people assume
    women will have a maternity leave I meant the pay gap comes into effect WHEN a women goes on maternity leave. and if a women just started a job and her
    wage gets compared to that of someone who has worked there for 15 years. there will be a gap and evidence suggests those countries with a lesser pay gap gives
    less money to women on maternity leave as this website says

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ender-pay-gap/
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Except that isn't why on average a woman earns less on average they work less hours, take worse degrees and go into lower paid professions
    take worse degrees and go into lower paid professions I agree with. It shouldn't be about if they work less because even if they do, for the time they are working, surely they should get paid the same? I am talking about wages, not salaries.
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    99% of people think Men and Women should be treated equally.

    Compare that to the percentage of people that are feminists, and you'll know the issue here.
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    I go to school in Central London, and it is a very good school. We were able to pick our a levels freely. Almost all my female friends chose either English, Psychology or Sociology for an a level, as opposed to Physics. They had the choice and they still chose to not go into STEM. They didn't have to climb a mountain to do a STEM subject, they simply had to put a cross on a form. I personally chose to do Chem and Bio ( I'm a girl under the same apparent 'societal pressures'. There may well be pressures but nowadays especially in the UK, women have so much opportunity and still refuse to take them- who do we blame?
    I would say blame the people who tell them if they do those subjects their lives will be hell and how they will face unimaginable abuse and then get no job at the end when it simply does not happen like they say.

    It's amazing how the people who want more women to take STEM subjects decided not to take stem and instead take degrees like feminist dance therapy
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    (Original post by lahorizon)
    take worse degrees and go into lower paid professions I agree with. It shouldn't be about if they work less because even if they do, for the time they are working, surely they should get paid the same? I am talking about wages, not salaries.
    Yes but the figures the ONS use are about earnings for the year which is one of the reasons their data shows women earn less.

    To a point yes, if you are talking about 2 people with the same qualifications, experience and time working in the company should but if I got a job tomorrow and someone who has already got their degree and worked with the company for 5 years then I shouldn't be paid the same.
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    Also, the number of women against feminism proves how *******s it is.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes but the figures the ONS use are about earnings for the year which is one of the reasons their data shows women earn less.
    Does it? Either way, I don't agree in the common pay gap where you compare men and women using vague averages. I do agree on the pay gap which exists when men and women are doing exactly the same job with the same qualifications- but I believe that is more so down to not bargaining well enough and some other factors.
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    (Original post by Gorillion)
    WTF, what's this got to do with anything, feminism used to be about women having the same rights as men, but seriously this is just stupid.
 
 
 
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