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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    Wrong, it's actually around 10% urban.

    The 2% thing is a very misleading figure that basically only looks at what is "built on" - it ignores things like parks, open areas, allotments, urban green space, etc. All stuff which is still part of the urban area (and therefore part of housing developments).
    No it's not wrong that figure includes all the countries roads, industrial space, houses, gardens, parks etc.

    2 or 3 percent is simply the footprint of houses.

    The m6 is going to be there regardless of houses and gardens/parks are more environmentally friendly than a barren field


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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    So no you aren't is he simple answer.

    And no its not. The left wing of this country won't be happy until all greenery is built on and we are squashed in shoulder to shoulder like sardines. Then they'll still say we need more people.
    Ah right didn't realise spending a quarter of the year doesn't give me an appreciation for the ideas and values of people that live in the countryside.....

    Also for that you mention to happen the population would need to be something like 600 million which is more than the entire population of the eu lol.


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Ah right didn't realise spending a quarter of the year doesn't give me an appreciation for the ideas and values of people that live in the countryside.....

    Also for that you mention to happen the population would need to be something like 600 million which is more than the entire population of the eu lol.


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    Not in your case it doesn't. You've shown that.

    Yeah I know, they'd still want more!
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    Yeah but capitialism let the idea and company flourish, giving them their job.

    You could live, you just couldn't have "nice things", which obviously you deem more important than what you believe in. Typical Champagne socialist aren't you?
    Ad hominem after ad hominem. The main reason we have the immigration you complain about is simply to satisfy the ideology you are defending here, capitalism. Thus by trying to solve the housing crisis through reversing immigration you are attempting to have your cake and eat it. Applying simple solutions such as this doesn't work in the real world.
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    (Original post by The Lovely Panda)
    Ad hominem after ad hominem. The main reason we have the immigration you complain about is simply to satisfy the ideology you are defending here, capitalism. Thus by trying to solve the housing crisis through reversing immigration you are attempting to have your cake and eat it. Applying simple solutions such as this doesn't work in the real world.

    I never complained about immigration so don't put words in mouth. My fiancée is an immigrant and so is my best friend.

    I said there are too many people. It's just that reducing immigration is the easiest way to help bring population down unless we sterilise people or have a one child policy. Which would you pick?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    I never complained about immigration so don't put words in mouth. My fiancée is an immigrant and so is my best friend.

    I said there are too many people. It's just that reducing immigration is the easiest way to help bring population down unless we sterilise people or have a one child policy. Which would you pick?
    I'm afraid it's not the case that we have too many people. In fact, only 6.8% of the UK is actually built on and now woodland is calculated to cover 12.7% of the UK, the highest proportion since 1924 when records began. Also by looking at the various population growth rates of European countries the UK is 11th out of the 31 countries with a growing population (%change on year greater than zero). Other countries such as Spain, Sweden, Norway and Ireland have greater population growth rates than the UK yet do not suffer a so-called housing crisis. This therefore helps to debunk the myth that the UK housing crisis is a demand side issue as you keep on insisting when in fact it is one of supply.

    You could argue that the Irish have a 'housing crisis' but they currently have lower house prices than the UK in real terms which further implies that the UK issue is one of supply given that the Irish have a higher population growth rate than the UK.
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    Nothing it do with people moving. It's because of rich land owners deliberate refusing for new houses to be built on their land.
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    Also, the government isn't building enough houses because the more affordable houses there are the less the Banks can make a profit
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    TheDefiniteArticle tell him your plan
    The one where I move everyone into gulags?
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    (Original post by Nowen)
    Solid argument.
    Is the root cause of high murder rates too many people as well?
    No. You're stupid.

    Rates are per 1000 people. If you're implying that having more people wouldn't increase the total number of murders then you're an idiot. It's also not relevant to his argument. More people = more houses needed, it's simple economics you tool.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    Nothing it do with people moving. It's because of rich land owners deliberate refusing for new houses to be built on their land.
    Get your tinfoil hat...

    (Original post by Jee1)
    Also, the government isn't building enough houses because the more affordable houses there are the less the Banks can make a profit
    Tinfoil hat is out in force...

    (Original post by The Lovely Panda)
    I'm afraid it's not the case that we have too many people. In fact, only 6.8% of the UK is actually built on and now woodland is calculated to cover 12.7% of the UK, the highest proportion since 1924 when records began. Also by looking at the various population growth rates of European countries the UK is 11th out of the 31 countries with a growing population (%change on year greater than zero). Other countries such as Spain, Sweden, Norway and Ireland have greater population growth rates than the UK yet do not suffer a so-called housing crisis. This therefore helps to debunk the myth that the UK housing crisis is a demand side issue as you keep on insisting when in fact it is one of supply.

    You could argue that the Irish have a 'housing crisis' but they currently have lower house prices than the UK in real terms which further implies that the UK issue is one of supply given that the Irish have a higher population growth rate than the UK.
    It's about having infrastructure around houses as well - anyone could build a house in the middle of a field in the Midlands but it wouldn't have amenities near it so no-one would want to live there. What you omit from your argument is that we are the most densely populated country in the EU, and that the demand for homes in the UK is of a greater quality than those in other EU countries.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    No it's not wrong that figure includes all the countries roads, industrial space, houses, gardens, parks etc.

    2 or 3 percent is simply the footprint of houses.

    The m6 is going to be there regardless of houses and gardens/parks are more environmentally friendly than a barren field


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    Using only the "footprint" of houses is incredibly misleading because it misses out everything else that's part of the urban area that's not technically "built on". I'd much rather take the whole urban area, as housing developments take up more land than simply the footprint of the houses. Using this 2-3% figure suggests there is far more countryside (and far more land "available") than there actually is.


    And about gardens being more environmentally friendly, I'd very heavily dispute that considering:

    People tend to tidy and manicure gardens to within an inch of their lives, making them pretty much useless for wildlife
    Fences and walls are often obstacles to hedgehogs
    You're not just building on "barren" fields - sometimes more valuable habitats home to rare and threatened species are destroyed. Not every farm field is barren.
    Some people moving into those houses have pet cats which roam freely and devour the local wildlife
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    Okay hitler you seem to know what you're talking about
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    I said there are too many people. It's just that reducing immigration is the easiest way to help bring population down unless we sterilise people or have a one child policy. Which would you pick?
    Why not put your money where your mouth is? Are you and your fiance offering to leave for the good of everyone else?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Why not put your money where your mouth is? Are you and your fiance offering to leave for the good of everyone else?
    We already own houses in France, Spain and San Francisco so yeah could leave anytime. Know anyone who'd like a house in Mayfair and/or Somerset?
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    We already own houses in France, Spain and San Francisco so yeah could leave anytime. Know anyone who'd like a house in Mayfair and/or Somerset?
    So it is actually you who is causing the housing crisis by owning multiple houses? Unless you are renting them out. Maybe a solution to the housing problem would be to prevent people owning second homes that are vacant for all but two weeks of the year?

    As for who would like a house in Mayfair or Somerset - yes - thousands! By your own admission.
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    (Original post by Tahret)
    No. You're stupid.

    Rates are per 1000 people. If you're implying that having more people wouldn't increase the total number of murders then you're an idiot. It's also not relevant to his argument. More people = more houses needed, it's simple economics you tool.
    Lol okay.
    How is this anything but a supply side issue?
    Of course increase in population will extend the demand curve for housing, but the crisis is not occurring due to that.
    To put it plainly building companies are not meeting demand perhaps due to wanting to keep prices high, or due to the fact that we don't have as many skilled labourers as we previously had.

    Your argument is what you labelled me, stupid.
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    (Original post by MeYou2Night)
    We already own houses in France, Spain and San Francisco so yeah could leave anytime. Know anyone who'd like a house in Mayfair and/or Somerset?
    I'm sure those in the respected countries love you having property there that restricts their access to housing.
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    (Original post by The Lovely Panda)
    I'm afraid it's not the case that we have too many people. In fact, only 6.8% of the UK is actually built on and now woodland is calculated to cover 12.7% of the UK, the highest proportion since 1924 when records began.
    12.7% is one of the lowest rates in Europe - most other European countries are at least into 20% and up. And the rate of new woodland creation is slowing down and isn't even meeting half of the government target (and the target isn't even that ambitious).

    And I find it quite unsettling that people use these various "only x% is built on" figures, as it appears to suggest that urban expansion isn't a problem. If you're not careful, soon it won't be "only" 6.8% built on.
 
 
 
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