Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Need help taking legal action over Plymouth University please. Watch

    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Except it was unconditional and it was accepted.
    A verbal contract is binding assuming it meets the standard requirements.
    As I said, there is nothing whatsoever in the OP about any purported offer being accepted.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by Forum User)
    As I said, there is nothing whatsoever in the OP about any purported offer being accepted.
    Then why did the person on the phone tell them not to do anything and that they would be sending out the acceptance confirmation?
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Then why did the person on the phone tell them not to do anything and that they would be sending out the acceptance confirmation?
    The OP doesn't say anything about acceptance confirmation.

    Whether or not the OP accepted what he thought was an offer over the phone, another argument the university could raise is that the OP knew (having been told) that he would receive a formal "offer" the next day, and that its communication over the phone cannot therefore reasonably have been thought by the OP to constitute an offer in the contractual sense.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    My advice - get over it.

    The staff are under enough stress as it is, it's perfectly normal that they'll make one tiny mistake among the hundreds of calls they're receiving.

    Forget about Plymouth, forget about the uni you rejected, and move on. If you have to wait another year then so be it. If anything, this falls on you for missing your firm and insurance offers.
    No, mistakes effecting a year of someones life and their future is not ''perfectly normal''.
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    19
    Very Important Poster
    (Original post by Forum User)
    The OP doesn't say anything about acceptance confirmation.

    Whether or not the OP accepted what he thought was an offer over the phone, another argument the university could raise is that the OP knew (having been told) that he would receive a formal "offer" the next day, and that its communication over the phone cannot therefore reasonably have been thought by the OP to constitute an offer in the contractual sense.
    They can raise it, but its not consistent wuth the rest of the message. If the offer was unconditional as the OP suggest then there are no conditions, they intend to be bound then. If they want to say only in writing or when its confirmed on tracking thats fair enough, but they have to state that as a term.

    Instead they gave them information consistent with acceptance.

    Its generally pointless suing unis becayse they have bottomless resources, but in this case the OP has nothing to lose about making a complaint. You only need to identify the person who took the call. A bit of persistence creates a chance they can give in. Weve already had a thread with a person getting a place in medicine for being persistent over a uni mess up that was much weaker than this.


    @PQ What's the best way forward in a situation like this?
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    They can raise it, but its not consistent wuth the rest of the message. If the offer was unconditional as the OP suggest then there are no conditions, they intend to be bound then. If they want to say only in writing or when its confirmed on tracking thats fair enough, but they have to state that as a term.

    Instead they gave them information consistent with acceptance.

    Its generally pointless suing unis becayse they have bottomless resources, but in this case the OP has nothing to lose about making a complaint. You only need to identify the person who took the call. A bit of persistence creates a chance they can give in. Weve already had a thread with a person getting a place in medicine for being persistent over a uni mess up that was much weaker than this.
    Well, whatever ones view on the likely effect of the communication that the OP received, I definitely agree with you that it is worth the OP making a complaint, and persisting in trying to get the university to give him a place. If I was the OP I would complain whether or not I had actually accepted the offer over the phone.

    The only case I know where someone sued a university in similar circumstances is Moran v University College Salford. I seem to recall that was a case where the claimant had accepted an offer through the UCAS system, the university then attempted to change its mind, and the claimant sought a mandatory injunction against the university (essentially requesting that they specifically perform their contract). That claim failed, but the judges agreed that the facts gave rise to a potential liability in damages. I'm not sure what the end result was - I suspect that the University College settled for some modest amount.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    All debate aside, has anyone actually noticed that the OPs username is AmusedDouche?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IWMTom)
    All debate aside, has anyone actually noticed that the OPs username is AmusedDouche?
    Wow good catch!
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by IWMTom)
    All debate aside, has anyone actually noticed that the OPs username is AmusedDouche?
    I was wondering whether it was a play on amuse-bouche
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Forum User)
    There's nothing in the OP to suggest that he did accept any offer that was made, at least the way I read it.
    Quite clearly common sense would indicate that. If he didn't accept the offer then why on earth would there be a problem the first place.

    The sheer fact that A. He applied for the uni through clearing, and B. He said he rejected other offers because of this one, clearly indicates that he accepted the offer.

    I do wonder how people like you get by with such overly literal thinking. It must be a struggle sometimes?
    Online

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Quite clearly common sense would indicate that. If he didn't accept the offer then why on earth would there be a problem the first place.
    I don't agree with you. Of course, I am not saying that the OP did not accept the "offer" - I have no idea whether he did or not.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by infairverona)
    It's not laughable at all. They have wasted a year of OP's life by making an offer and retracting it as OP has turned down another opportunity and lost out. Also, if Optometry is one of the courses where this was the last year that the NHS would fund it, then this uni has potentially just cost OP an incredible amount of money. That's not unreasonable to sue over
    The first thing the University's lawyers would point out would be that there is no proof of any of this. The second thing would probably be that OP turned down his other offers before receiving any written confirmation of the offer from Plymouth, meaning that the OP has at the very least muddied the waters as to who caused this problem. *
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    This is unfortunate, but you have no basis for any legal action. You had no binding contract with the University and nothing more than a verbal agreement which you cannot even prove occurred.

    Forget it and move on.
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    The first thing the University's lawyers would point out would be that there is no proof of any of this. The second thing would probably be that OP turned down his other offers before receiving any written confirmation of the offer from Plymouth, meaning that the OP has at the very least muddied the waters as to who caused this problem. *
    I'm pretty sure there would at the very least be records of these calls maybe not on the uni's end (how convenient that they claim it wasn't logged..) but from OP's phone provider's end. Why would a uni make a direct call to OP's phone if, for example, they purport to never have offered OP a place? Surely OP would've just been told on the phone there are no places.

    OP acted on the basis of a verbal offer which, if accepted, was binding. It's not unreasonable to then reject another offer - if anything OP was being courteous to another uni and not stringing them along, which I'm sure many students might do. I think the best bet would be for OP to call back whoever they spoke to last and ask leading questions that clearly records what happened, and audio records the call for proof*
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by infairverona)
    I'm pretty sure there would at the very least be records of these calls maybe not on the uni's end (how convenient that they claim it wasn't logged..) but from OP's phone provider's end. Why would a uni make a direct call to OP's phone if, for example, they purport to never have offered OP a place? Surely OP would've just been told on the phone there are no places.
    The university may well have logs of the calls - what they said, according to the OP, was that they weren't recorded. And why would they record them? Almost no business does that, and those that do specifically tell you they're recording the call. As for the last two sentences of the above, unfortunately that kind of conjecture falls well short of the mark for proving OP's case. The university could have called him to clarify something about his application, or a myriad of other things.*
    *
    (Original post by infairverona)
    OP acted on the basis of a verbal offer which, if accepted, was binding.
    You seem to assume this, but it's not clear what was said on the phone (this being the central issue to this whole thing). An offer must be capable of acceptance. You might be familiar with the soundbite from Treitel that an offer is "an expression of willingness to contract on certain terms, made with the intention that it shall become binding as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom it is addressed". Whatever conversation OP had with the university assistant on the phone may well have fallen short of that, especially if they told him that their formal offer would follow in writing.
    *
    (Original post by infairverona)
    It's not unreasonable to then reject another offer - if anything OP was being courteous to another uni and not stringing them along, which I'm sure many students might do. I think the best bet would be for OP to call back whoever they spoke to last and ask leading questions that clearly records what happened, and audio records the call for proof*
    I agree it's not unreasonable, but it wasn't necessary either - OP acted on his own initiative in doing that, and in so doing he took a risk. I would imagine that much would be made of OP's bridge burning by the other side if there was a dispute over this.*

    Recording the initial conversation would have probably helped OP substantially, but I highly doubt that OP is going to get any verbal admission of fault from the university now. He of course has nothing to lose from trying.*
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Not that I'm anyone in a position to give facts out but from my knowledge through clearing you would normally receive a verbal offer on the phone and this would have been subject to you applying through track.

    It should have been explained to you by the person on the phone that although you have a place, it is a first-come-first-served basis so apply on track ASAP.

    Having to turn down one university for the chance to go into another is just a risk that a lot of people have to make unfortunately. Also for anyone els I recommend asking as many questions as possible, Clearing is a crazy two weeks with so much going on but still always get as much details.

    Really sorry about missing out on the place though! Sounds like a nightmare


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AmusedDouche)
    Hi,

    Plymouth University made me an unconditional offer through clearing yesterday for their Optometry course, They said they would email me confirmation of the offer, and accommodation details. They told me not to do anything else, not to call or contact them, but to wait for their email,

    Today they rang me back saying the course was full. I am obviously pissed off, as their offer lead me to refuse another offer. I rang them to make a complaint, and the complaints manager told me the reception staff had only received 3 days training for clearing, and apologised for any mistakes. He then said that he had no way of verifying the details, and when I gave him the time of the call he said calls weren't recorded.*

    What do I do?*
    OMG you never even asked who you were speaking to? Its custom and plain common sense to ask the name of who you are speaking to when making a telephone call and even better ask the person your speaking to to send you a confirmation email ASAP.

    If you did that simple thing then with a name at least the complains manager would be snookered and would have to have put you on the course and given the person you spoke to a lot of grief.

    But you didn't and as far as they know you could have made the whole lot up to get a place. But with a name there is no shadow of doubt. You need to cover your back.

    Dear oh dear...


    Mind you it can work both ways. I heard of someone getting into medical school through clearing with poor A level results. They said they'd spoken to someone fictitious presumably with a common name in the clearing dept who accepted them onto the course. A few days later they claimed that they'd not received confirmation of acceptance. The clearing complains manager accepted this after been given a name and sent them official confirmation of acceptance onto the Bachelor of medicine course.
    This lad got into medical school with such abysmal grades and has so far made it to their third year!
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    The first thing the University's lawyers would point out would be that there is no proof of any of this. The second thing would probably be that OP turned down his other offers before receiving any written confirmation of the offer from Plymouth, meaning that the OP has at the very least muddied the waters as to who caused this problem. *
    If the lad have had the common sense to of asked who he was speaking to in the initial phone call then he have his back covered and have had some proof. But with no name he could have made it up.

    But it works both ways. I heard of a guy who got into medical school with poor science A level results. He fictitiously claimed that he'd been given a clearance offer onto the Bachelor of Medicine course.

    A few days later he phoned up admissions and asked why he had not received his confirmation email?
    He chose a common name by sheer gamble of who he claimed to have spoken to in the clearance dept. (He'd never even spoken to anyone in clearance) The admissions officer bit his tongue and accepted this claim and despite poor A' level results he had to accept the lad into medical school. The irony is the lad had never even considered medicine as a career until weeks before clearance.
    As far as I know he's now is entering his 3rd year and on the way to becoming a doctor.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    If the lad have had the common sense to of asked who he was speaking to in the initial phone call then he have his back covered and have had some proof. But with no name he could have made it up.

    But it works both ways. I heard of a guy who got into medical school with poor science A level results. He fictitiously claimed that he'd been given a clearance offer onto the Bachelor of Medicine course.

    A few days later he phoned up admissions and asked why he had not received his confirmation email?
    He chose a common name by sheer gamble of who he claimed to have spoken to in the clearance dept. (He'd never even spoken to anyone in clearance) The admissions officer bit his tongue and accepted this claim and despite poor A' level results he had to accept the lad into medical school. The irony is the lad had never even considered medicine as a career until weeks before clearance.
    As far as I know he's now is entering his 3rd year and on the way to becoming a doctor.
    ...Okay?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Ambitious1999)
    If the lad have had the common sense to of asked who he was speaking to in the initial phone call then he have his back covered and have had some proof. But with no name he could have made it up.

    But it works both ways. I heard of a guy who got into medical school with poor science A level results. He fictitiously claimed that he'd been given a clearance offer onto the Bachelor of Medicine course.

    A few days later he phoned up admissions and asked why he had not received his confirmation email?
    He chose a common name by sheer gamble of who he claimed to have spoken to in the clearance dept. (He'd never even spoken to anyone in clearance) The admissions officer bit his tongue and accepted this claim and despite poor A' level results he had to accept the lad into medical school. The irony is the lad had never even considered medicine as a career until weeks before clearance.
    As far as I know he's now is entering his 3rd year and on the way to becoming a doctor.
    I thought medicine couldn't be in clearing?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Has a teacher ever helped you cheat?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.