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    Naveed you do realize that the video is made by the BNP right?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Can you point me to where leave suggested we start deporting highly skilled immigrants?
    No.

    Can you point me to where I've implied they did?
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    No.

    Can you point me to where I've implied they did?
    You brought up removing all eu migrants taxes out of the equation nobody has suggested we do that.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes it's the Tory's fault that's why real spending has increased under the Tory government since they took power from labour.
    Attachment 574240
    Mate, it doesn't mean they used the spending properly. It's not about "throwing money at it" as another user stated, it's about using the money properly to fix things. It will take time, but it will be fixed. Rome wasn't built in a day.
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    (Original post by asmuse123)
    Mate, it doesn't mean they used the spending properly. It's not about "throwing money at it" as another user stated, it's about using the money properly to fix things. It will take time, but it will be fixed. Rome wasn't built in a day.
    I didn't say it was read the comment I replied to, the last few governments haven't properly fixed the problems across the political spectrum and both sides deserve criticism for that mainly the Tory government at the minute but they are not underfunding the nhs compared to labour.
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    (Original post by asif007)
    I think it's absolutely shocking that there are still people out there who buy into all the rhetoric and lies from the Leave campaign when all their deceit was exposed to the public after the referendum result. Anyone who seriously believes for a second that the funding we save from leaving the EU will go back into the NHS is an idiot. I'm surprised most people only realised that after Farage's interview the day after the referendum when those of us with a bit of common sense and who voted Remain, could see that coming a mile off. The government's mission to underfund, destabilise and demoralise the NHS will not change - that was already a huge problem way before the referendum was called. Now the government have control of that funding we saved, it's gonna go into keeping the economy stable and plugging the gaps created by all the EU funding we have lost. It's already common knowledge that we got a lot more in return from the EU than we paid into it. Not to mention that if we stay in the EEA, our borders will stay open and immigration will not change.

    I find it outrageous that anyone can believe the BS coming from the BNP - you do realise that most of the people they interviewed in that video are probably unemployed anyway and pay no tax? Therefore they don't have a right to keep banging on about "we pay into it" and "we get shoved to the end of the queue". Anyone with even a passing knowledge of immigrant culture would know that immigrants work extremely hard, live sensibly and contribute more to the economy than they take from it. There's no use blaming immigrants for a problem which was already rife for years before the Brexit debate started. The reporter himself acknowledges that it is a government problem, but it is way out of line to blame EU migrants when they have just as much right to be in this country as we do. If you want someone to blame for all the problems currently going on in the NHS - blame the Tory party, Jeremy Hunt, Health Education England and the Department of Health.
    1) The money that actually gets paid to the EU is £367 million. Vote Leave rounded it to 350.

    According to the Office For National Statistics which is the recognised national institute for the UK and responsible for collecting UK economy statistics -
    UK balance of payments - 2015:

    Table 9.9 which shows the UK's Total debits to the EU at £19.9 billion in 2014.
    This works out at £367 million per week.

    Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nation...ntsthepinkbook

    The EU is undemocratic. It dictates what the money paid for by tax payers returned to Britain in rebate should be spent on.
    The rebate comes back after being discussed by EU, and sometimes delayed.
    The money does come back only if we follow certain EU rules.



    The amount of money UK paid to EU in 2014:

    £55 million a day to the EU as a gross contribution.

    £21 million a day comes back to UK in rebates

    The NET figure was £34 million per every single day.
    = £10 billion a year

    ^^^ That is way too much and it should be spent on our own priorities and our own people.

    2) It is inconsiderate and uncaring of you to think we should never listen to the British lower class, let their living standards decrease and not care about their GP appointment difficulties because they are unemployed.
    Their chances of being employed have decreased due to very high numbers of immigrants, large amounts of money unneccessarily paid to EU and lack of job opportunities. Job agencies are also flooded. Communities have changed. Primary school places are under pressure.

    3) Immigrants contribute more to the economy than they take from it???
    No they do not. You are wrong. Not all immigrants contribute more to the economy. Look at the cost of the Tax credit benefits. Tax credits costed £1.1 billion in 1999. In 2014 tax credits now cost UK £30 billion pounds.

    3) Yes. Some immigrants work really hard. Some do not. Some commit crimes. Some claim benefits. Some are lovely. Some are unskilled. The hard working immigrants are already here. and we also have British people. That does not mean we should continue having open borders to 508 million people which any one of them could come, and we have no control of the amount.

    4) The solution to these problems is to leave the EU and single market. And to follow an Australian points based system instead.
    Last year, 189,000 people immigrated to Australia. 67% of those people were skilled professionals. A further 17% were trades people with the skills that Australia wanted. That is a country that went to their employers, identified what their country needs and been able to set a target for the country's development.

    5) I myself didnt blame immigrants. I blamed the government, uncontrolled borders, EU payments, the European Union and Single market. Maybe you should do some more research into all of these areas instead of listening to the BBC and the typical gibberish.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Can you point me to where leave suggested we start deporting highly skilled immigrants?
    Of course not!

    Of course you just want to keep those that you deem beneficial. After all, you are the selfish pigs. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

    But you once again fail to see the point, as you always do. These people are crying of overcrowded hospitals and blame immigrants. But in reality we have proven that immigrants are most certainly not to blame. That is all this debate is about. Nothing else. Oh and good luck having access to the EU and at the same time a discriminatory immigration policy :hahaha:
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes it's the Tory's fault that's why real spending has increased under the Tory government since they took power from labour.
    Attachment 574240
    That is 0.95% increase a year, assuming the targets pan out, but the population has been growing by 0.6% a year (and this among old people more likely to need care). You cannot credit the Tories with much more than keeping spending above water.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You brought up removing all eu migrants taxes out of the equation nobody has suggested we do that.
    I wasn't talking about deporting anyone. I was pointing out the fact that if you remove a group of (on average) over-contributors from a system then the funding for that system will be in a worse situation.

    i.e The fallacy of blaming immigrants and not our own govt for problems in the NHS.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Of course not!

    Of course you just want to keep those that you deem beneficial. After all, you are the selfish pigs. You want to have your cake and eat it too.

    But you once again fail to see the point, as you always do. These people are crying of overcrowded hospitals and blame immigrants. But in reality we have proven that immigrants are most certainly not to blame. That is all this debate is about. Nothing else. Oh and good luck having access to the EU and at the same time a discriminatory immigration policy :hahaha:
    You are right I do want a immigration policy what helps this country.

    Having a immigration policy that actually works is not discriminatory, saying yes you are European and unskilled you can come in but you the African doctor can't is discrimination, what country are you from? You have said you aren't from Great Britain.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I wasn't talking about deporting anyone. I was pointing out the fact that if you remove a group of (on average) over-contributors from a system then the funding for that system will be in a worse situation.

    i.e The fallacy of blaming immigrants and not our own govt for problems in the NHS.
    Yes but nobody is saying we should remove the whole group so that argument doesn't really stand.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    That is 0.95% increase a year, assuming the targets pan out, but the population has been growing by 0.6% a year (and this among old people more likely to need care). You cannot credit the Tories with much more than keeping spending above water.
    I'm saying that there has been a slight increase under the Tory's than labour so saying that the Tory's are underfunding the NHS means you can not say that parties like labour weren't underfunding it.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Yes but nobody is saying we should remove the whole group so that argument doesn't really stand.
    It's the OP's assignment of blame that doesn't stand up which that was in response to. Never mind the fact that he's an Asian guy using a BNP video as a source ffs.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I'm saying that there has been a slight increase under the Tory's than labour so saying that the Tory's are underfunding the NHS means you can not say that parties like labour weren't underfunding it.
    The issue is ongoing mismanagement which is endemic to the public sector. Post #20 from KimKallstrom sums it up IMO.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I'm saying that there has been a slight increase under the Tory's than labour so saying that the Tory's are underfunding the NHS means you can not say that parties like labour weren't underfunding it.
    That's a poor argument. If Tories are underfunding it, that's their fault. Just because labour also underfunded it does not mean that we shouldn't blame the Tories for doing the same.


    The Tories are in power now and they are the ones underfunding it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    The issue is ongoing mismanagement which is endemic to the public sector. Post #20 from KimKallstrom sums it up IMO.
    I agree that there has been mismanagement but if people want to attack the Tory's for that then fine but saying that the NHS is underfunded while spending is increasing doesn't stand up to scrutiny when it is supporters of parties who have spent less on the NHS.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I agree that there has been mismanagement but if people want to attack the Tory's for that then fine but saying that the NHS is underfunded while spending is increasing doesn't stand up to scrutiny when it is supporters of parties who have spent less on the NHS.
    Part of the problem are cuts to Social Care which is increasing strain on the NHS. They can claim (correctly) that they've not reduced NHS spending but they have increased the pressure on it indirectly.

    http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2015/...inance-chiefs/
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    That's a poor argument. If Tories are underfunding it, that's their fault. Just because labour also underfunded it does not mean that we shouldn't blame the Tories for doing the same.


    The Tories are in power now and they are the ones underfunding it.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I disagree for one the Tory's are increasing NHS funding to where it should be and if you want the NHS's funding to be where you think it should be what should be cut or should we just borrow more money and leave the problems for someone else to deal with? There are problems throughout the NHS that need to be addressed you can't just simply throw huge sums of money at it and hope it goes away
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I disagree for one the Tory's are increasing NHS funding to where it should be and if you want the NHS's funding to be where you think it should be what should be cut or should we just borrow more money and leave the problems for someone else to deal with? There are problems throughout the NHS that need to be addressed you can't just simply throw huge sums of money at it and hope it goes away
    How about we fund it through taxation and remove private involvement?
    You cannot underfunded the NHS and then complain about poor performance. What problems need to be addressed? Give me details.

    You don't care about the NHS, you just use it as a convenient stick to beat immigrants with.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You cannot underfunded the NHS and then complain about poor performance. What problems need to be addressed? Give me details.

    You don't care about the NHS, you just use it as a convenient stick to beat immigrants with.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I haven't beat the immigrants, go and find me one post in this thread where I have done that.
    I have pointed out the flaws in saying oh let's say we remove all eu migrants (as no one has suggested we do that) and said if you want to attack one party then do it consistently and start with the people who originally underfunded the NHS not just the one who is increasing it, what political party do you support?

    One example would be to change the drugs we use, you regularly look on the MHoC and this was addressed in the last health soi and it mentions how much this change would save.
 
 
 
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