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    • #5
    #5

    Just adding in that no one at my university or on my course (a science subject) would really care. Like other people have said people may find it hard to use 'they' as your pronoun because it isn't something most people will naturally do, so don't get offended if they do slip up (they probably will a lot at the start). You may get some people, like the people above, who don't take it seriously or who will say there are only two genders but just try to avoid those people unless you feel like the argument. If someone brings it up and you don't want the argument just smile and shrug it off and find a group of friends who understand. If you don't make a big deal about it people shouldn't bother you about it, even if they don't agree

    In general though at university you're pretty free to be who you want to be and people will only be mean to you if you do something to annoy them first. A lot of the people on here aren't a university yet so try to ignore the people saying people will avoid you, I have never seen anyone avoid anyone at my university because of their gender or sexuality and I hope yours will be the same!
    • #3
    #3

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    It's the singular they - they are in their room.

    You use it all the time when you don't know someone's gender like -
    "Have you met the new Professor yet?"
    "No, what are they like?"
    "I'm not sure, but I've heard they're great!"

    And yeah, I get that I'll meet people who are resistant to using these pronouns and I've accepted I'm probably gonna meet a lot of people using gendered pronouns so I'm just gonna deal with that lol
    First one doesn't have they/them. The other two I wouldn't use normally and also don't use them.

    Why do you want people to use they/them? I don't understand.
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    (Original post by newsunflower)
    It's not about judging, it's more about the fact that there are only two genders: male and female.
    Gender is a socio-political construct which has many different shades.

    You're talking about the biological determinant, which is sex. And even that isn't limited to two, as there are aspects such as inter-sex states.
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    To the OP, generally university is the most accepting place you will find.

    However at uni everyone want's to be unique, it's why you see an explosion of vegi's, vegans, Bi, Gay, Transgendered, Non Binary, Pansexual, asexual etc etc.

    Most people will have heard it all before and will have seen the vast majority (apart from gay/bi & trans individuals, although there will be some), fail to remain so for the full 3 years. That's after said individuals lectured them about how righteous their lifestyle is, how intolerant other people are etc etc.

    So my advice would be this, just live in a manner that makes you happy! Only talk about it if people ask. Any negative comments, report them. However if you force it down peoples throats do be aware you'll most likely just increase the amount of negative comments and people 'will' talk behind your back.

    Join the corresponding society as well and they'll help you a bunch!

    (Original post by Another)
    Bear in mind: I find the link nothing more than Horse ****. But from the comments section;

    ...If you have a look at my FB page, you'll see I've been trying for some time to make people aware about exposure to synthetic female hormones (estrogens and progestins, drugs that are often used in high risk pregnancies to reduce the likelihood of a miscarriage or premature birth), as a cause of intersex-related abnormalities and transsexuality in the exposed male offspring.

    Estrogens and progestins are both highly effective at suppressing testosterone production in adult men, and they appear to be able to cross the placenta and have similar effects on a male fetus, with disastrous consequences. For as long as testosterone production continues to be suppressed, the fetus develops as female instead of male. Because genital development has already finished by the end of the first trimester whereas these hormone treatments are usually only used after the pregnancy is well established, the hormone exposure tends to mostly happen too late to have much effect on the genitals, and it's the brain that bears the brunt of the effects instead. The result is that you end up with people who are genetically male and look male, but have brains that have, to varying degrees, developed as female instead of male...

    (DES is an artificial oestrogen hormone given to pregnant women)

    There was a study published about 10 years ago in which 150 out of 500 DES sons in the study group had a female gender identity, and in which found a considerably higher incidence than normal of hypogonadism and intersex-related genital abnormalities. I don't have a link to hand, but the authors were Drs Scott Kerlin and Dana Beyer. There was also a study published recently by an organisation called Hhorages France, which found high rates of serious mental illnesses and suicides among children who were exposed to synthetic hormones (estrogens and progestins) in the womb, along with a high incidence of physical intersex-related abnormalities too. I suspect that probably a lot of the kids in that study were actually trans, except France is one of these places with a very macho culture and so nobody wanted to admit it.

    There may not be any papers linking cause to effect, but the science here looks plausible at least
    While true, it's long since been proven the whole idea of most transexuals etc having "the wrong brain for their sex" has been proven to be pretty much false. The vast majority of trangendered people have the correct brain for their gender, most people with the 'incorrect brain for their gender' act just like the majority of their gender do.

    Also you can't have gender being both socially and biologically imposed, it's the main reason LGB and Transgendered intellectual theories are incompatible and the fact Transgendered peopled are grouped into LGBT a complete farce.

    Popular feminist theory doesn't even understand how socialisation works, generally believing if you bring someone up to be a girl/boy they will correspond to that gender. While yes, socialisation does account for the majority of your brains social development, you can socialise people in a manner that while encouraging masculine traits, in the long run will actually encourage feminine traits.
    • #6
    #6

    Trigger alert: This post may offend you if you refuse to accept biological truths or cultural norms.

    There is a huge variety of male body types.
    There is a huge variety of female body types.

    There is a huge variety of personality types.

    Some people judge others on their character.
    Others judge people based on random ******** like skin colour or gender.

    Even if you are a special snowflake, people who judge you on ******** that isnt important aren't worth your time.
    unfortunatly, same goes for you - if you judge people for random ******** then you're not gonna be popular


    Because you're living in a civilization that values science and there are biologically only two genders you'll have to make the effort to also appreciate things from the perspective of the majority.

    For most people, you're similar to a conspiracy theorist.
    Don't believe in gender? don't believe in the moon landings? Bit weird, but as long as you cause no harm and you're a nice person its fine.

    When you start trying to impose your beliefs on others, then you're gonna upset people.


    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on my thoughts
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    (Original post by Klix88)
    Gender is a socio-political construct which has many different shades.

    You're talking about the biological determinant, which is sex. And even that isn't limited to two, as there are aspects such as inter-sex states.
    That's current feminist sociological theory, it's not anywhere near proven or a universally accepted theory... and in sociology they are literally theories, not in the same manner as scientific theories.

    It's the main reason why LGBT organisation exsisting is completely pointless other than 'safety in numbers'. Transgendered theories, even within certain circles of feminism state their gender is wrong due to genetics and biological determinism. The most accepting theory with more 'party line' feminists would be their sexual development messes with their gender development..... however according to proper feminist theories Transgendered people simply should not be a thing as they are born one sex, then socially raised to their corresponding gender, so in all respects would have a matching sex and gender.
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    That's current feminist sociological theory, it's not anywhere near proven or a universally accepted theory... and in sociology they are literally theories, not in the same manner as scientific theories.

    It's the main reason why LGBT organisation exsisting is completely pointless other than 'safety in numbers'. Transgendered theories, even within certain circles of feminism state their gender is wrong due to genetics and biological determinism. The most accepting theory with more 'party line' feminists would be their sexual development messes with their gender development..... however according to proper feminist theories Transgendered people simply should not be a thing as they are born one sex, then socially raised to their corresponding gender, so in all respects would have a matching sex and gender.
    I certainly don't have or share a feminist view on it.

    My point to the poster I quoted, was merely that gender is to do with perception, rather than being the absolute binary state they suggested. As you point out, that perception can be a very movable feast.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    First one doesn't have they/them. The other two I wouldn't use normally and also don't use them.

    Why do you want people to use they/them? I don't understand.
    It was meant to be structured as a conversation, sorry if that wasn't clear. Here's another example if you're still confused:

    "Have you seen them today? I heard they had a tough lecture this morning."

    I want people to use they/them because I don't identify as male/female and she/her or he/him pronouns feel very gendered. So they/them is more of a neutral way to address me and I feel much more comfortable with it!

    That's all there is to it, it's not some political statement, and it certainly doesn't affect anyone's life apart from mine! All I ask of people is to make a tiny change in the way they refer to me and in the grand scheme of things, it's not difficult at all.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by DanB1991)
    To the OP, generally university is the most accepting place you will find.

    However at uni everyone want's to be unique, it's why you see an explosion of vegi's, vegans, Bi, Gay, Transgendered, Non Binary, Pansexual, asexual etc etc.

    Most people will have heard it all before and will have seen the vast majority (apart from gay/bi & trans individuals, although there will be some), fail to remain so for the full 3 years. That's after said individuals lectured them about how righteous their lifestyle is, how intolerant other people are etc etc.

    So my advice would be this, just live in a manner that makes you happy! Only talk about it if people ask. Any negative comments, report them. However if you force it down peoples throats do be aware you'll most likely just increase the amount of negative comments and people 'will' talk behind your back.

    Join the corresponding society as well and they'll help you a bunch!



    While true, it's long since been proven the whole idea of most transexuals etc having "the wrong brain for their sex" has been proven to be pretty much false. The vast majority of trangendered people have the correct brain for their gender, most people with the 'incorrect brain for their gender' act just like the majority of their gender do.

    Also you can't have gender being both socially and biologically imposed, it's the main reason LGB and Transgendered intellectual theories are incompatible and the fact Transgendered peopled are grouped into LGBT a complete farce.

    Popular feminist theory doesn't even understand how socialisation works, generally believing if you bring someone up to be a girl/boy they will correspond to that gender. While yes, socialisation does account for the majority of your brains social development, you can socialise people in a manner that while encouraging masculine traits, in the long run will actually encourage feminine traits.
    I agree with you on the first point and I do understand that uni is a time where people explore and experiment with gender/sexuality and that's a very natural thing to do! Thanks for the advice!

    On the second point, I honestly try to avoid political/scientific reasonings for sexuality and gender identities and for the most part I really don't care! At the end of the day, sexuality and gender is a very personal thing and the only person who can define "why" they feel that way is the individual.

    Thanks for the positive reply though!
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Klix88)
    Gender is a socio-political construct which has many different shades.

    You're talking about the biological determinant, which is sex. And even that isn't limited to two, as there are aspects such as inter-sex states.
    Exactly!
    And adding to this, Aa our simplest level, yes you could divide humans up depending on their chromosomes, and that's sex. Gender identity is more of a perceived state and is totally individual. Therefore the binary of women/men in terms of gender is actually much more fluid and more of a spectrum than two distinguished categories.
    • #6
    #6

    (Original post by Klix88)
    Gender is a socio-political construct which has many different shades.

    You're talking about the biological determinant, which is sex. And even that isn't limited to two, as there are aspects such as inter-sex states.
    Sex=Gender

    If you want a new term please make it up and stop this 1984 newspeak mumbo jumbo.

    It is ungood.
    • #7
    #7

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Sex=Gender

    If you want a new term please make it up and stop this 1984 newspeak mumbo jumbo.

    It is ungood.
    My scientific background doesn't permit the use of those terms interchangably - they are different concepts in my field and terms which are well established and undrstood. "Sex" is rooted in testable chromosone differentiaton. "Gender" is a matter of perception which takes no account of chromosonal fact.
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    People at university are (mostly - there's always some silly person) quite liberal and accepting so you won't need to worry about this. Just join a bunch of societies and clubs and you'll make friends
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    (Original post by Klix88)
    Gender is a socio-political construct which has many different shades.

    You're talking about the biological determinant, which is sex. And even that isn't limited to two, as there are aspects such as inter-sex states.
    no
    you can't redefine words to fit your twisted political ideology
    gender = sex
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    My scientific background doesn't permit the use of those terms interchangably - they are different concepts in my field and terms which are well established and undrstood. "Sex" is rooted in testable chromosone differentiaton. "Gender" is a matter of perception which takes no account of chromosonal fact.
    Apologies - the above was posted anonymously in error. Anonymous #7 = Klix88.
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    (Original post by Raees_Sharif)
    no
    Yes

    you can't redefine words to fit your twisted political ideology
    Not doing that. Although I could if I wanted to, because you are. Freedom of speech rocks.

    gender = sex
    Wrong. Look up both words in the most basic dictionaries. See post #52. Knowledge is power, my friend. Get yourself some.
    • #8
    #8

    (Original post by Klix88)
    Look up both words in the most basic dictionaries
    The dictionary definition for a Nazi is a member of the Nation Socialist German Worker's Party. People do not associate Nazis with people who fought for German worker's rights.

    Dictionaries are not the gospel, and only describe all common usages of language. They do not lay out how language should be used. Bringing this down to semantics is stupid anyway.

    I trust you can realise in the future that labeling ourselves with pointless, non-existent "socio-politcal contructs", as you put them and partaking in identity politics on this scale is sad and logically bankrupt. I used to listen to the arguments put forward on tumblr, and prescribed to them, but as I learned more and matured I realised how pointless the whole ordeal is.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    The dictionary definition for a Nazi is a member of the Nation Socialist German Worker's Party. People do not associate Nazis with people who fought for German worker's rights.
    An interesting random factoid, entirely unrelated to the issues under discussion here.

    Dictionaries are not the gospel, and only describe all common usages of language. They do not lay out how language should be used.
    My usage of the two words adheres to the common definitions and concepts, which hopefully alleviates your confusion. You do seem easily confused.

    Bringing this down to semantics is stupid anyway.
    Stop doing it then. AKA "I'm losing - this is a stoopid argument anyway."

    I trust you can realise in the future that labeling ourselves with pointless, non-existent "socio-politcal contructs", as you put them and partaking in identity politics on this scale is sad and logically bankrupt.
    Your trust is misplaced; I have at no point attempted to do such a thing. The discussion was about the definitons of "gender" and "sex". AKA "I'm losing so I'll pretend that the argument was about something else." My Mum's been doing that to me for the last 50+ years - you're an amateur.

    I used to listen to the arguments put forward on tumblr, and prescribed to them, but as I learned more and matured I realised how pointless the whole ordeal is.
    I'm certainly with you on the pointless thing, albeit for different reasons. And why a mature adult should find robust debate such an "ordeal" is a mystery.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    My scientific background doesn't permit the use of those terms interchangably - they are different concepts in my field and terms which are well established and undrstood. "Sex" is rooted in testable chromosone differentiaton. "Gender" is a matter of perception which takes no account of chromosonal fact.
    Gender isn't a scientific term.... it's a sociological and grammatical term....

    (Original post by Klix88)
    Wrong. Look up both words in the most basic dictionaries. See post #52. Knowledge is power, my friend. Get yourself some.
    Gender begin separated from sex only happened in the 1950's.... and purely in a manner to separate social and biological behaviours. However even then sex and genders universally matched, with new "types" of gender being given to third or middle way groups such as transgendered people. As such their gender wouldn't be male or female. Previous to this, despite occasionally being used in place of sex, gender was mostly a grammatical term.

    It's only until the 1970's & 1980's with the rise of feminism that gender became this socially fluid thing where anyone could be anything they wanted. It's modern meaning is 100% linked to feminist theory, if you disagree with that particular aspect of feminist theory, then gender does indeed mean the same thing a sex in this context.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    While true, it's long since been proven the whole idea of most transexuals etc having "the wrong brain for their sex" has been proven to be pretty much false. The vast majority of trangendered people have the correct brain for their gender, most people with the 'incorrect brain for their gender' act just like the majority of their gender do.

    Also you can't have gender being both socially and biologically imposed, it's the main reason LGB and Transgendered intellectual theories are incompatible and the fact Transgendered peopled are grouped into LGBT a complete farce.

    Popular feminist theory doesn't even understand how socialisation works, generally believing if you bring someone up to be a girl/boy they will correspond to that gender. While yes, socialisation does account for the majority of your brains social development, you can socialise people in a manner that while encouraging masculine traits, in the long run will actually encourage feminine traits.
    I see, I didn't know. I was told in school by a teacher that transsexuals did have a different brain structure than cis people (but that homosexuals didn't), but I haven't looked it up since then.

    Even so, 150/500 of boys identifying as girls when their mothers were receiving hormone treatment, is a staggeringly high amount. It's possible that only a few brain sites are affected, while the majority that has no effect on self awareness or active consciousness remains as "the original gender"

    And yeah, that's the biggest gripe I have about the social construct theory. If true, you should be able to lob a man's penis off at birth, treat him as a girl, and he will think he is a girl. But case studies have proven this to be false (and if it were true, transsexuals would not exist in the first place).
 
 
 
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