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    (Original post by ORW)
    I agree here, there are 23000 students starting undergraduate Law degrees in the UK this September, the highest on record. So compare that to the amount of training contracts (5500 I think the latest figure was) and pupillages (less than 400) available each year there is obviously way too many graduates and an awful lot of them will be unemployed or forced to go into other sectors. Oxbridge and the Russell Group will have the pick of these jobs. Think about all the crap unis (there are loads of them) that offer a law degree and trick their students that they can go onto great legal careers, dream on. Yes, Oxbridge or an RG does not guarantee you a job, my neighbour's daughter has a 1st in Physics from Oxford and cannot get a patent law job, most in part due to her arrogant, anti-social persona and lack of work experience, but you typically have the best chances. It is Oxbridge and Russell Group who will be least alarmed by the huge numbers doing a law degree as they nearly all have the skills set and prerequisites required for the jobs hence why law firms love them
    Actually, the figure of 23000 students and 5500 TCs doesn't seem to bad considering that over a half of students come from no chance universities, some of them won't get 2.1s and others may not have the necessary experience. Thus, if we tick all the boxes chances aren't that bad for us.
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    being truthful- my parents are both lawyers and they told me not to bother at a non russell unless you don't mind being a paralegal all your life (earn no more than £20,000)
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    also my mum used to be the person who decided which applicants would get training contracts so she would know
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    Just to give another perspective, I did my LLB at a non-RG uni and obtained pupillage at a chancery set. I know two students on the same course with TCs at Herbert Smith and A&O.

    Getting a good career is possible whichever university you attend, although no doubt attending a better university is an advantage.
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    what was your firm uni? you could always take a gap year and reapply.
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    My friend did Law at Coventry university. He got a first.

    Now he fits carpets.
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    (Original post by Donkey******)
    My friend did Law at Coventry university. He got a first.

    Now he fits carpets.
    My friend did Law at Manchester, he got a strong 2:1 and now sells phones.

    You can see now why these statements are pretty much useless.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    My friend did Law at Manchester, he got a strong 2:1 and now sells phones.

    You can see now why these statements are pretty much useless.

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    Agreed, your life experiences are in no way related to anyone else's. It's more to do with how hard you're prepared to work.
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    (Original post by BIGJohnson777)
    Actually, the figure of 23000 students and 5500 TCs doesn't seem to bad considering that over a half of students come from no chance universities, some of them won't get 2.1s and others may not have the necessary experience. Thus, if we tick all the boxes chances aren't that bad for us.
    Yeah exactly the non RG grads dont have a chance as opposed to us RG students!
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    (Original post by ANAREY1)
    being truthful- my parents are both lawyers and they told me not to bother at a non russell unless you don't mind being a paralegal all your life (earn no more than £20,000)
    Nice! Yeah I know a top QC who heads one of the KBW sets in London he said just go to Russell Groups for a chance. He attended a top RG himself (Warwick)
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    (Original post by ORW)
    Yeah exactly the non RG grads dont have a chance as opposed to us RG students!
    (Original post by Princepieman)
    My friend did Law at Manchester, he got a strong 2:1 and now sells phones.

    You can see now why these statements are pretty much useless.

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    Just to chip in with my two cents' worth, as a recent law graduate from a top university, with experience at various city firms. Your university is obviously a factor, but I generally think the stronger applicants are found in the best universities. On every vacation scheme intake (MC/SC/US), the majority will be Oxbridge, then London/Durham (usually), then places like Warwick/Bristol/Nottingham. Occasionally, you will get someone from a left-field university, such as Kent/Sussex. Your university can carry you to an extent. For example, my marks aren't great, and if I had achieved them at somewhere middling, I doubt that I would have had the interviews that I did.

    There are a few firms that will not touch you, regardless of what you achieve at a university like Man Met. These firms are insanely difficult to get into, so even your run of the mill graduate from a RG university has little chance. Law is still relatively elitist, so I do think you should try and get into the best university possible, if only to avoid ever feeling that you're seen as a diversity hire, of some sorts. Some lawyers/trainees are ridiculously snobby and will make assumptions about you based on your university. Even as a qualified associate, some firms will stipulate A-Level requirements and a 2.1 degree from a top university.

    However, ORW, you need to realise that there are some firms who value 'recent academic achievements over past achievements, and will look at your application holistically. Some firms, including magic circle, would prefer someone who has excelled at a lower university over someone who has struggled at somewhere like LSE. For example, 73% from somewhere like Brunel/Kent would be more competitive than 60% from LSE, for somewhere like Slaughter and May. You just need to really build up your CV in all aspects, because you really cannot afford to have patchy undergraduate academics from a non-RG university. If you go to somewhere like Man Met and scrape a 2.1, then yes, you'll end up on the scrapheap. However, if you go to Man Met, do very well academically, seek leadership roles/volunteer, you'll have a fighting chance.

    Just as an anecdote, I know some who has interviewed for TCs in this cycle at Freshfields, S&M, BLP, Ashurst, and a few others. She has a first class degree from a bottom 30 university, but I think she also has decent A-Levels. Also, there are so many City firms out there, no need to be fixated on magic circle firms.
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    (Original post by erj2018)
    Just to chip in with my two cents' worth, as a recent law graduate from a top university, with experience at various city firms. Your university is obviously a factor, but I generally think the stronger applicants are found in the best universities. On every vacation scheme intake (MC/SC/US), the majority will be Oxbridge, then London/Durham (usually), then places like Warwick/Bristol/Nottingham. Occasionally, you will get someone from a left-field university, such as Kent/Sussex. Your university can carry you to an extent. For example, my marks aren't great, and if I had achieved them at somewhere middling, I doubt that I would have had the interviews that I did.

    There are a few firms that will not touch you, regardless of what you achieve at a university like Man Met. These firms are insanely difficult to get into, so even your run of the mill graduate from a RG university has little chance. Law is still relatively elitist, so I do think you should try and get into the best university possible, if only to avoid ever feeling that you're seen as a diversity hire, of some sorts. Some lawyers/trainees are ridiculously snobby and will make assumptions about you based on your university. Even as a qualified associate, some firms will stipulate A-Level requirements and a 2.1 degree from a top university.

    However, ORW, you need to realise that there are some firms who value 'recent academic achievements over past achievements, and will look at your application holistically. Some firms, including magic circle, would prefer someone who has excelled at a lower university over someone who has struggled at somewhere like LSE. For example, 73% from somewhere like Brunel/Kent would be more competitive than 60% from LSE, for somewhere like Slaughter and May. You just need to really build up your CV in all aspects, because you really cannot afford to have patchy undergraduate academics from a non-RG university. If you go to somewhere like Man Met and scrape a 2.1, then yes, you'll end up on the scrapheap. However, if you go to Man Met, do very well academically, seek leadership roles/volunteer, you'll have a fighting chance.

    Just as an anecdote, I know some who has interviewed for TCs in this cycle at Freshfields, S&M, BLP, Ashurst, and a few others. She has a first class degree from a bottom 30 university, but I think she also has decent A-Levels. Also, there are so many City firms out there, no need to be fixated on magic circle firms.
    This is all correct!

    I love this site because people like you and Iron Bowl come on here to drop truth bombs, and bust myths. Thanks

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    Whilst we're discussing City TCs as the measure to discuss whether law is 'worth it', if you attend a poor university things aren't over, but you're going to have to excel.

    I completed two MC vac schemes this summer, 75% of attendees were Oxbridge and the other 25% were the typical universities you would expect to see. I've also attended numerous open days at top firms, not in the MC but who are based in the City, and I've honestly never encountered anyone who attended a non-traditional uni, so whilst I accept that there is some individuals who will make it from the likes of MMU you're going to have to smash your degree (within the top 5% I'd say) and have a fantastic all round application as you'll be rare.

    I attend a decent RG uni and I know countless individuals who are struggling despite great grades, the top of the market is just so Oxbridge dominated that even RG grads really do struggle to find a place.

    *Also, the point above about Brunel/Kent I'm not sure if I fully agree with, I'm fairly certain many firms (particularly S&M...) would view 73% from those unis as unimpressive tbh, the degree from both places is regarded as much easier than LSE's for the most part, so unless 73% is almost top of their cohort it may not be good enough... then again at S&M 60% from LSE would be well below also.
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    I've just got a first class degree at a non RG uni and I start my LPC in September. Your career in law will be what you make of it. As demonstrated by this forum, people will always have prejudices about where your educations from. Someone always seems to have some sort of relative in the industry and obviously that relatives opinion is the be all and end all *sigh* but that doesn't mean that every law firm and recruiter thinks that way - so many do not. Your value as a potential solicitor boils down to much more than your university's name.

    If you want to go to MMU then go to MMU. I went on an open day there and it seemed a perfectly nice University and Manchester is a great city to be in.

    I'm not going to spurt a load of stats at you but I will tell you my experience - I've had a great time, made great friends and got some fantastic grades (lowest 67, highest 88.) I was able to get involved in some great pro bono and charity work because of my university that looks great on my CV. One particular pro bono opportunity opened the door to two other legal placements which helped me to get a mini pupillage and now I have a part time job as a legal assistant whilst I complete my LPC. Overall, I don't think I'm doing too badly at working towards a TC at a firm thats right for me.

    Don't be discouraged, be motivated and passionate. Good luck OP.
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    (Original post by Hann95)
    I've just got a first class degree at a non RG uni and I start my LPC in September. Your career in law will be what you make of it. As demonstrated by this forum, people will always have prejudices about where your educations from. Someone always seems to have some sort of relative in the industry and obviously that relatives opinion is the be all and end all *sigh* but that doesn't mean that every law firm and recruiter thinks that way - so many do not. Your value as a potential solicitor boils down to much more than your university's name.

    If you want to go to MMU then go to MMU. I went on an open day there and it seemed a perfectly nice University and Manchester is a great city to be in.

    I'm not going to spurt a load of stats at you but I will tell you my experience - I've had a great time, made great friends and got some fantastic grades (lowest 67, highest 88.) I was able to get involved in some great pro bono and charity work because of my university that looks great on my CV. One particular pro bono opportunity opened the door to two other legal placements which helped me to get a mini pupillage and now I have a part time job as a legal assistant whilst I complete my LPC. Overall, I don't think I'm doing too badly at working towards a TC at a firm thats right for me.

    Don't be discouraged, be motivated and passionate. Good luck OP.
    With all due respect to your 1st and extra curricular, it does beg the question why do you not have a TC? Unless your A levels have held you back and employer's view of your university? Self funding the LPC is a fool's game these days...
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    (Original post by ORW)
    With all due respect to your 1st and extra curricular, it does beg the question why do you not have a TC? Unless your A levels have held you back and employer's view of your university? Self funding the LPC is a fool's game these days...
    I don't have a TC yet because of specific things I've been given feedback on, the main one being improving my commercial awareness which is what I've been working on. I'm also not self funding the LPC but thanks for your condensing warning.
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    (Original post by ORW)
    With all due respect to your 1st and extra curricular, it does beg the question why do you not have a TC? Unless your A levels have held you back and employer's view of your university? Self funding the LPC is a fool's game these days...
    You're going to uni in a few weeks, chill.

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    (Original post by Hann95)
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    (Original post by ORW)
    With all due respect to your 1st and extra curricular, it does beg the question why do you not have a TC? Unless your A levels have held you back and employer's view of your university? Self funding the LPC is a fool's game these days...
    Without aiming to sound rude I think Hanna's post if anything proves the point that so many have made on this thread so I must say I agree.

    With top grades at their university (grades which would frankly not be obtainable at a better university, '88%'...) and fantastic EC's and work experience it appears clear to me that it is their university which has held them back.

    If I was choosing universities and viewed Hanna's post I would be worried. They have done everything possible whilst at university yet still don't have a TC, when so many at better universities do without as strong of an overall application.

    There is nothing wrong with being a legal assistant and completing your LPC prior to having a job offer, but it demonstrates that you have to lower your expectations somewhat.
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    (Original post by Conzy210)
    Without aiming to sound rude I think Hanna's post if anything proves the point that so many have made on this thread so I must say I agree.

    With top grades at their university (grades which would frankly not be obtainable at a better university, '88%'...) and fantastic EC's and work experience it appears clear to me that it is their university which has held them back.

    If I was choosing universities and viewed Hanna's post I would be worried. They have done everything possible whilst at university yet still don't have a TC, when so many at better universities do without as strong of an overall application.

    There is nothing wrong with being a legal assistant and completing your LPC prior to having a job offer, but it demonstrates that you have to lower your expectations somewhat.
    Well they did say it was commercial awareness that was the issue, which is a valid point.. You can have all the bells and whistles required to get to interview, but fail at interview if your examples and commercial awareness knowledge is lacking. It can happen to virtually anyone.

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    (Original post by Conzy210)
    Without aiming to sound rude I think Hanna's post if anything proves the point that so many have made on this thread so I must say I agree.

    With top grades at their university (grades which would frankly not be obtainable at a better university, '88%'...) and fantastic EC's and work experience it appears clear to me that it is their university which has held them back.

    If I was choosing universities and viewed Hanna's post I would be worried. They have done everything possible whilst at university yet still don't have a TC, when so many at better universities do without as strong of an overall application.

    There is nothing wrong with being a legal assistant and completing your LPC prior to having a job offer, but it demonstrates that you have to lower your expectations somewhat.
    Except for one thing - you have absolutely no idea how many applications I've made, where I've made them to, how far in the process I've got, what feedback I've been given etc.

    I will have a training contract but I'm not going to sit here and justify to you why I haven't got one just yet when there are plenty of RG uni grads that also don't have TCs yet.

    If people are really that insecure about themselves that they feel the need to try and belittle someone else on a public forum then all I can say is I sincerely feel bad for you.

    You can sneer all you want, but I will get a TC when I've worked out the kinks in myself and my applications, like a good few of my uni friends already have.

    My reply was simply for OP, so he can understand that people will always have their opinions but it's up to him to make something of himself.

    P.S. Hannah*
 
 
 
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