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Italy: 10,000 migrants rescued from Mediterranean in 48 hours Watch

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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I just can't think that saving 10,000 people is bad news. If you saw a boatload of people drowning, and you had the option of either saving them or letting them die, which would you do? I just don't think saving drowning people's lives is the problem here. I think it's good. It's the housing them in European countries which is the problem. If we didn't open our borders in the first place, only a very few would try to come to Europe via the Med, and far less would die, but its not the saving them from drowning which in itself has lead them to try and make the crossing, its not the saving them which is the problem. The problem is opening our borders to them, but while this problem persists, I'd still rather save them than just sit back while they perish.
    It depends on what is done with them after they are saved. If they are taken back to Africa, that is a different argument.

    Let me ask you, would you save 10,000 people from drowning if it meant the collapse of European civilisation and the deaths that collapse would lead to?
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    It depends on what is done with them after they are saved. If they are taken back to Africa, that is a different argument.

    Let me ask you, would you save 10,000 people from drowning if it meant the collapse of European civilisation and the deaths that collapse would lead to?
    European civilisation is not going to collapse. Calm down. It'll be fine
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    (Original post by Trapz99)
    European civilisation is not going to collapse. Calm down. It'll be fine
    European civilisation was made and is maintained by guess what.. .European people. There is a point at which the European people and their civilisation cannot hold any more before their civilisation collapses, it is quite simple. Feel free to debate the number / % of population that the tipping point would be, but the premise is solid.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    It depends on what is done with them after they are saved. If they are taken back to Africa, that is a different argument.

    Let me ask you, would you save 10,000 people from drowning if it meant the collapse of European civilisation and the deaths that collapse would lead to?
    I wouldn't, but that's besides the point, because as I say, the act of saving them isn't the problem. It's the housing them in European countries, and having open borders to entice them in. There is nothing contradictory about being happy that they are saved, while being unhappy that they are allowed to cross through open European borders unchecked. The two things are separate. If the latter thing changed and the borders stopped being wide open to them, I would be happy about the few that still tried to cross being saved, and if it didn't change I'm still going to be happy, because it's a seperate issue.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I wouldn't, but that's besides the point, because as I say, the act of saving them isn't the problem. It's the housing them in European countries, and having open borders to entice them in. There is nothing contradictory about being happy that they are saved, while being unhappy that they are allowed to cross through open European borders unchecked. The two things are separate. If the latter thing changed and the borders stopped being wide open to them, I would be happy about the few that still tried to cross being saved, and if it didn't change I'm still going to be happy, because it's a seperate issue.
    So as of today, with the ridiculous open borders, knowing that if saved they will be taken to Europe and let go to do whatever they want, and in the knowledge that saving them encourages more people to take the risky journey (of which some are certain to die), in the knowledge that some will be rapists, murderers etc., some will be terrorists, some will be petty criminals, many of them will have no desire to integrate, with no way of determining who is who and what % of the boat people are criminals in their home nations and what % are not, do you support saving them?
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    It doesn't even matter If they wish to integrate or not. We just don'h have logistics for them. Where will they find accomodation? Job? Who will teach them language? Will they do this on their own?

    There is also something else: improvment of their condition in life, even if possible in Europe is not a solution by any means. Lot's o people will still live in terrible conditions, unless we take all poor people of the 3rd world to our rooms and made living terrible for everybody.
    If we want to do anything good for them, we should provide education, focusing on things that are lacking in our's: logic, ethics, pshilosophy, and apart from that, we should also provide education about contraception.
    There are two reasons for that:

    -Our planet is not able to provide resources for 7+ billions of people living western style. Technology will not change that. The green revolution in India, pesticides and GMO only made situation worse.
    We should rather start reforming world into something beetwen the West and Bhutan, with accent on Bhutan.

    -There was a writer you probably don't know. His name was Sławomir Mrożek. He wrote a tale about a party in future in which people are so immortal, that even small nuclear explosions can't kill them, but their mentality is the same as the medieval one, so scrimmage takes place, but instead of fists and knifes, they use rockets and nuclear bombs. We are very much alike. Each of us has a computer thousands times more powerful that that of the Apollo's spaceship, in our pockets, and what do we use it for?
    Is many areas we are far more stupid that the people of Bhutan, or ancient Greeks. It's time to do something about it.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    So as of today, with the ridiculous open borders, knowing that if saved they will be taken to Europe and let go to do whatever they want, and in the knowledge that saving them encourages more people to take the risky journey (of which some are certain to die), in the knowledge that some will be rapists, murderers etc., some will be terrorists, some will be petty criminals, many of them will have no desire to integrate, with no way of determining who is who and what % of the boat people are criminals in their home nations and what % are not, do you support saving them?
    Yes I support saving them, but I don't support the seperate matter of housing them in Europe. If push came to shove, I'd still be happier to hear that they have been saved and that a European country housed them, instead of leaving them to drown, but I would definitely rather that they were saved and taken to more appropriate regions. The few that we save from drowning are a tiny minority of those that make it to Europe, I doubt tens of thousands entering the whole of Europe will do much. It is the hundreds of thousands settling into individual countries which is so dangerous, and likely to cause very isolated communities. Saving those that are drowning barely affects whether those millions of migrants will continue to pour into Europe; it is the open door policies that entice them, not the saving of lives.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Yes I support saving them, but I don't support the seperate matter of housing them in Europe. If push came to shove, I'd still be happier to hear that they have been saved and that a European country housed them, instead of leaving them to drown, but I would definitely rather that they were saved and taken to more appropriate regions. The few that we save from drowning are a tiny minority of those that make it to Europe, I doubt tens of thousands entering the whole of Europe will do much. It is the hundreds of thousands settling into individual countries which is so dangerous, and likely to cause very isolated communities. Saving those that are drowning barely affects whether those millions of migrants will continue to pour into Europe; it is the open door policies that entice them, not the saving of lives.
    And that is where the problem lies, and it is action such as that which will lead to the end of our way of life. 10,000 in the grand scheme of things is a small number, but it isn't a single event, it is every few days! Sadly under the current situation (open borders and saved migrants being taken to Europe), if you support the saving of them, you are facilitating for the end of European civilisation, yes, it may be to a small scale, as the number of migrants that are saved are a small % of total migrants, but every decimal contributes to the greater problem.

    I don't wake up hoping that migrants die, I also don't view it as a good thing, I just keep in mind the long-term consequences of saving these people AND taking them to Europe, the latter part being key to my statements.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I just can't think that saving 10,000 people is bad news.
    I'm ok with them being saved from drowning, but what I don't understand is why they are brought to Italy after having made 15 miles off the Libyan coast. It only encourages more to try. If they had been brought back to Libya, it would have discouraged the others.
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    (Original post by Vividly clear)
    Almost all of them?

    So you're willing to accept a large group of people with completely different backgrounds, culture and general way of life, which will most definitely be infested by people who have no business in assimilating to western culture but to bring death terror and destruction because most of the people coming are decent people?


    Absolute nonsense.
    yep, given that we have been doing exactly the same for more than 100 years and it has proven to be useful to our economy

    also given that very few of them want to bring 'death terror' apart from the terrorists who are exploiting the situation

    its only a problem when the far-right anti-immigration supporters start alienating them and force them to isolate themselves from society, but after that you whinge about them not integrating :rofl:
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    (Original post by Josb)
    I'm ok with them being saved from drowning, but what I don't understand is why they are brought to Italy after having made 15 miles off the Libyan coast. It only encourages more to try. If they had been brought back to Libya, it would have discouraged the others.
    In case you want a to-scale depiction of how stupid this is:

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    (Original post by Josb)
    I'm ok with them being saved from drowning, but what I don't understand is why they are brought to Italy after having made 15 miles off the Libyan coast. It only encourages more to try. If they had been brought back to Libya, it would have discouraged the others.
    Exactly.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    yep, given that we have been doing exactly the same for more than 100 years and it has proven to be useful to our economy

    also given that very few of them want to bring 'death terror' apart from the terrorists who are exploiting the situation

    its only a problem when the far-right anti-immigration supporters start alienating them and force them to isolate themselves from society, but after that you whinge about them not integrating :rofl:
    You're not making any sense.


    The immigration crisis Europe is currently facing is reaching numbers that we have never seen before, and the fact that you admitted that there will be some terrorists in the amount of them coming in, what you claim is due to isolation and not religious motivation, but yet still support their migration is absolute madness.
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    (Original post by Vividly clear)
    You're not making any sense.


    The immigration crisis Europe is currently facing is reaching numbers that we have never seen before, and the fact that you admitted that there will be some terrorists in the amount of them coming in, what you claim is due to isolation and not religious motivation, but yet still support their migration is absolute madness.
    I don't support the migration at all, but we have a scenario where people are practically swimming across the Med to get here, there is no realistic solution to deport/stop them without implementing some excessively expensive or politically unviable procedures.

    Instead, we should be dealing with it instead of whinging about all the problems they're causing, because evidently that only contributes to potential radicalisation.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    there is no realistic solution to deport/stop them without implementing some excessively expensive or politically unviable procedures.
    On the contrary, towing their vessels back to Libya (and, preferably, scuttling them once the migrants had disembarked) would work very well and be very inexpensive compared to taking them to Italy. It would also deter more people from attempting the journey.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    I don't support the migration at all, but we have a scenario where people are practically swimming across the Med to get here, there is no realistic solution to deport/stop them without implementing some excessively expensive or politically unviable procedures.

    Instead, we should be dealing with it instead of whinging about all the problems they're causing, because evidently that only contributes to potential radicalisation.
    So because people are swimming from far distances to come to Europe we should just accept all of them with open arms without any questions.

    I stand by the idea I've always had since this crisis started, and that's only to admit in families, a mother a father and children. No individual person at all, especially military aged men, leaving their homeland to scrounge of the government.
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    Italy will probably look like Sub-Saharan Africa in 30 or 40 years
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Let me ask you, would you save 10,000 people from drowning if it meant the collapse of European civilisation and the deaths that collapse would lead to?
    I don't accept that premise that that is what will happen if you accept the 10,000 people.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    you talk about it being unsustainable, tell me, how sustainable is it to let innocent refugees die just because you think they cause problems when our own native population causes the exact same problems at a more massive rate
    Ummm, they aren't refugees and we are CAUSING more deaths.

    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I just can't think that saving 10,000 people is bad news. If you saw a boatload of people drowning, and you had the option of either saving them or letting them die, which would you do? I just don't think saving drowning people's lives is the problem here. I think it's good. It's the housing them in European countries which is the problem. If we didn't open our borders in the first place, only a very few would try to come to Europe via the Med, and far less would die, but its not the saving them from drowning which in itself has lead them to try and make the crossing, its not the saving them which is the problem. The problem is opening our borders to them, but while this problem persists, I'd still rather save them than just sit back while they perish.
    We aren't saving 10,000, we're condemning another lot of thousands. Pray tell how many people have drowned because they chose to attempt the journey? Must be over 10,000 by now. Now ask yourself, why did they die? The answer is simple: attempting to male the journey. Why did they attempt to make the journey? Because they believed they would make it to Europe. Why did they believe they could make it? Because they knew if they were picked up they would be taken there.

    The Australians had the exact same issue a few years back, they had hundreds of drownings with people trying to get into Australia, the difference is they were sensible and deported anybody that was caught, guess how many die now? I would wager more have died today trying to get into Europe than have died for the last couple of years trying to get into Australia, by that I mean I wager people died today because you liberals lack common sense.

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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I don't accept that premise that that is what will happen if you accept the 10,000 people.
    Last I checked the estimates were in the millions, not the tens of thousands

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