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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    No. You said they should be paid as much.

    Everyone wants to protect society from Criminals. The same way everyone wants to save lives. Doctors and nurses don't own the saving lives part.





    And like I said before.....how many people do 5 year degrees to get paid less than most people? That includes the few other comparable courses.

    You can't even answer the basic point without rambling on.
    No, it's because you don't get basic economics. Doctors get paid more due to prestige and their social importance. that's all. Your suggestion that it's a reward for studying longer is silly, or just a reflection of your own rationalisation for being a doctor.

    And yes, police officers should be paid as much. Their role in society is as significant as doctors, and police seldom ever strike.
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    In my opinion, 5 days is too long and emergency services is too far. I sympathise with them but so many patients are going to be affected and it's not their fault. I think there is going to be a massive change in public opinion on this now and people will stop backing the cause, which is what Jeremy Hunt wants and needs. I work in a London hospital and I don't know anyone clinical who supports these strikes
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    It does, the police and army have not striked in a long time have they? There is a good reason for that. The same applies in lots of countries.
    So what? Neither did Doctors before this year.

    Quite frankly, no one is going to strike in the Army because it is a crap job with crap pay. There is nothing to strike over.

    Anyway, Police have striked in countries that they are banned from striking. So, I am not even sure what your point was.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    I didn't say it was the only profession.
    No, but there are circa 100,000 solicitors in England and Wales, all of whom do it on a very regular basis. For some people it is unquestionably something they regularly go through and it is no great hardship, the number of people imprisoned each year for breach of their professional obligations (rather than crimes committed facilitated by their profession, such as a dr committing gross neg manslaughter or a solicitor committing fraud) is very small.
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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    No, it's because you don't get basic economics. Doctors get paid more due to prestige and their social importance. that's all.
    Err yeh sure.

    I mean, it isn't that hard to sit and cut out a tumour out of someones brain for 6 hours. You get paid for the social part.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So what? Neither did Doctors before this year.

    Quite frankly, no one is going to strike in the Army because it is a crap job with crap pay. There is nothing to strike over.

    Anyway, Police have striked in countries that they are banned from striking. So, I am not even sure what your point was.
    That is exactly the reason that you do strike, you don't strike if you are happy with your salary.

    Name all of these developed nations where the police have striked.
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    (Original post by motoroller)
    I believe there was a backtrack on a few of the points, hence the new disagreement.



    The government are the ones imposing a contract which isn't workable. It is childish to back a minister who doesn't have any support in one of the most important professions in the country, and to push "facts" which actually have no evidence behind them. She has been quoted saying BMA should put patients first. Doctors have never done anything but put patients first, and I'm speaking from the experience of friends and family who are doctors. It's the same propaganda that led to Brexit, a web of spin which has no underlying fact, an abuse of authority and trust.
    the contract is only unworkable because junior doctors are lazy af. The fact the minister has no support by the BMA is irrelevant. They do not have power to appoint/remove him so whatever they think means diddly-squat.I reject doctors being one of the most important professions, they are just as important as errybody else. Doctors have never done anything but be lazy self-serving f**kers. The propaganda that led to brevet came from the OECD and LSE and other EU funded organisations.


    Also, a democratic vote is never an abuse of authority/trust.
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    (Original post by Iron Bowl)
    No, but there are circa 100,000 solicitors in England and Wales, all of whom do it on a very regular basis. For some people it is unquestionably something they regularly go through and it is no great hardship, the number of people imprisoned each year for breach of their professional obligations (rather than crimes committed facilitated by their profession, such as a dr committing gross neg manslaughter or a solicitor committing fraud) is very small.
    No. He said "the risks are not that high". The risks are that high. Imprisonment, assault, medical negligence, blood borne viruses, and etc.

    The list goes on. I didn't say that the risks were likely to happen. I didn't say it was something that is only exclusive to medicine.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Err yeh sure.

    I mean, it isn't that hard to sit and cut out a tumour out of someones brain for 6 hours. You get paid for the social part.
    I'm sorry? I like how you twist things to suit your point...hmmmmm...do they teach comprehension and relational skills in medical school? I believe you don't like people challenging your profession, sorry it's a free school, dude...

    to repeat, doctors get paid more due to their social role, and get paid enough. any "complaints" is just whining, little else. And yes, I believe police should be paid as much as doctors, i know that irks you out of spite or snobbery, but then it's good if you want people to rob you, right?
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    That is exactly the reason that you do strike, you don't strike if you are happy with your salary.

    Name all of these developed nations where the police have striked.
    Well, I am saying they are happy with their crap salary. They knew it was crap when they joined.

    Hahahaha....Yeh...had to add the caveat of "developed".
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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    I'm sorry? I like how you twist things to suit your point...hmmmmm...do they teach comprehension and relational skills in medical school? I believe you don't like people challenging your profession, sorry it's a free school, dude...

    to repeat, doctors get paid more due to their social role, and get paid enough. any "complaints" is just whining, little else. And yes, I believe police should be paid as much as doctors, i know that irks you out of spite or snobbery, but then it's good if you want people to rob you, right?
    Oh wait....insults and more rambling.

    Not really. They get paid more because their job is more difficult. It isn't that hard to become a policeman on the other hand.

    If you want think you are smart enough to take out a brain tumor then I suggest you should. It would be a lot cheaper.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So what? Neither did Doctors before this year.

    Quite frankly, no one is going to strike in the Army because it is a crap job with crap pay. There is nothing to strike over.

    Anyway, Police have striked in countries that they are banned from striking. So, I am not even sure what your point was.
    The Police are law enforcement though, if they go on strike and the government wishes to stop them they have to send the Army onto the streets. That brings with it both logistical challenges and the appearance of martial rule. If doctors were banned from striking and then did, the Police are still around to arrest them without the spectre of military vehicles patrolling the streets. I don't agree they should be banned from striking, doctors work is not essential to security of the country as is the case for Police, Army, prison officers etc. However, you only have to look at the new 50% ballot provisions in the Trade Union Act to see that if you are in a profession the government deems would make its life particularly difficult by striking, they will limit your right to strike.

    I agree our jobs carry that risk, but it's hardly something me and my gf (an ST1) sit around worrying about each night, as you would in a profession like the military or oil rigs.
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    (Original post by Iron Bowl)
    The Police are law enforcement though, if they go on strike and the government wishes to stop them they have to send the Army onto the streets. That brings with it both logistical challenges and the appearance of martial rule. If doctors were banned from striking and then did, the Police are still around to arrest them without the spectre of military vehicles patrolling the streets. I don't agree they should be banned from striking, doctors work is not essential to security of the country as is the case for Police, Army, prison officers etc. However, you only have to look at the new 50% ballot provisions in the Trade Union Act to see that if you are in a profession the government deems would make its life particularly difficult by striking, they will limit your right to strike.

    I agree our jobs carry that risk, but it's hardly something me and my gf (an ST1) sit around worrying about each night, as you would in a profession like the military or oil rigs.
    Go ahead and arrest them.

    Good luck doing all the Ops when every doctor stops work.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Oh wait....insults and more rambling.

    Not really. They get paid more because their job is more difficult. It isn't that hard to become a policeman on the other hand.

    If you want think you are smart enough to take out a brain tumor then I suggest you should. It would be a lot cheaper.
    Hmmmmm...more self-rationalising......OK, i"m not your therapist.

    Oh and defusing bombs is simple work. High power markmanship is easy. OK, you're "smart" but only in a specialised area, not much else....
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, I am saying they are happy with their crap salary. They knew it was crap when they joined.

    Hahahaha....Yeh...had to add the caveat of "developed".
    A developed is required to make it a fair comparison, when talking about national policies, it is reasonable to compare nations that are vaguely similar.

    I could say that they are paid 100 times too much already and compare their salary to Sudanese doctors, but that would not be a fair comparison would it.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    A developed is required to make it a fair comparison, when talking about national policies, it is reasonable to compare nations that are vaguely similar.

    I could say that they are paid 100 times too much already and compare their salary to Sudanese doctors, but that would not be a fair comparison would it.
    Ok, but we are not talking about pay. We are talking about whether the provision of banning striking actually stopping striking. That doesn't change internationally.
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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Hmmmmm...more self-rationalising......OK, i"m not your therapist.

    Oh and defusing bombs is simple work. High power markmanship is easy. OK, you're "smart" but only in a specialised area, not much else....
    Err...I didn't say that becoming a marksman or a bomb defusal expert is easy.

    I said becoming a policeman is significantly easier.

    The only person that seems to have a problem with that fact is you.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Ok, but we are not talking about pay. We are talking about the provision of banning striking actually stopping striking. That doesn't change internationally.
    It does stop the striking, people care about their jobs / pensions etc., these rules don't typically get broken. You have not provided any evidence.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    It does stop the striking, people care about their jobs / pensions etc., these rules don't typically get broken. You have not provided any evidence.
    Well, I did and then you changed the rules.
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    I''ve got massive respect for medical professional, very few people i respect less really. If you feel like they need to go on strike, they have my support. One of the few things i find great about this country is the NHS and it being harmed in our life-time, since we didnt care, would be a real shame.
 
 
 
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