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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Debate??? you just wanted to flex your muscles, but cool...

    i actually was unhappy you didn't vote yes the last time, i'm not bothered either way. But then she has said that she wants Scotland to be part of the UK and the EU at the same time, which is pretty dopey as it is.
    If I wanted to flex my muscles, I wouldn't do it on an online forum.

    Why do you keep assuming that I'm Scottish, this betrays your weakness in logical debate if you can't even imagine an impartial view.
    I have never once heard her say that. Although quite regularly she has said that a second UK membership vote will settle things finally.

    Also, Northern Ireland voted to remain. The significance with Northern Ireland is that they will likely have open borders with the Republic, and be in the UK.
    Therefore, even if Sturgeon said that, it wouldn't be 100% impossible.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    If I wanted to flex my muscles, I wouldn't do it on an online forum.

    Why do you keep assuming that I'm Scottish, this betrays your weakness in logical debate if you can't even imagine an impartial view.
    I have never once heard her say that. Although quite regularly she has said that a second UK membership vote will settle things finally.

    Also, Northern Ireland voted to remain. The significance with Northern Ireland is that they will likely have open borders with the Republic, and be in the UK.
    Therefore, even if Sturgeon said that, it wouldn't be 100% impossible.
    Eh? no, it's only since you act all bullish, i just dismiss you, and move on.haha.
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    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    Eh? no, it's only since you act all bullish, i just dismiss you, and move on.haha.
    So Scottish people are bullish and nobody else ?
    And you ignored my argument. Very intelligent.
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    I remember back in 2014, I cared whether Scotland stayed in or not.

    Now I really don't. Screw off if you must - you'll just be a damper, smaller, crappier version of England anyway.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    So Scottish people are bullish and nobody else ?
    And you ignored my argument. Very intelligent.
    I wasn't paying attention, since I know your agenda for "debating"...
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    - Many people voted to remain in the UK because if Scotland left the UK it would have to apply to be in the EU again as an independent country which not only takes years but could be severely detrimental to Scotland's economy. FACT this was a main point for the remain campaign if you all weren't watching it closely back in 2014.

    -Now the Tory party (not the biggest in Scotland) and the English vote has dragged Scotland out of the EU out of her will. Hence you can see how many people could be upset.

    - Also with regards to Northern Ireland, this result could affect it's future in the UK too. Nationalism isn't about being anti United Kingdom, it relates to personal identity.

    - This is a democratic referendum and ofco should be respected. I'm just trying to give people a different perspective. Also isn't saying that a Leader of a major political party in the UK should 'shut up' undemocratic? We live in a great multi-cultural society with loads of mixes of views and perceptions. Its how our society works.
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    Why should she be shut up? She is one of the best politicians out there imo. She should entitled to her views and she should fight for what she wants- after-all she is elected! So why should she be shut up? She holds different views to you? I am sensing a lot of people are affraid of her and they're afraid of what she can achieve.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    It's the very attitudes on display here that's led to separatist politicians being elected in Scotland.
    It really isn't. The ignorant English backlash is a consequence of Scottish nationalism. I don't just mean political nationalism either: all that "anyone but England", Auld Enemy, wha's like us? claptrap has been kicking around since the 1960s.

    In the run up to the Scottish referendum, I never experienced any hostility from English people at all - most of them were just upset and took the wall-to-wall coverage to mean that it was likely to happen. Some even made the dramatic assumption that any Scot they met would be a nationalist. It usually cheered them up quite a bit to be put right.

    English derision is usually nothing more than the frustration of a wounded lover. I'm at least pleased now that the ire is getting clearly directed at the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon and that there's a wider realisation that they do not speak for us on this issue.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    This is something that concerns the Scottish people, who were lied to and exposed to shameful fear tactics during the referendum for independence. Clearly you are either ignorant of the gaelic identities and pride of many Scottish people or just stupid in general.
    That's quite an accusation to make. Care to substantiate it in some way? Because the only people I've ever heard to harp on about "lies" in the referendum campaign are extremists and, typically, a bit unhinged. The sort of people who think the BBC had secret meetings with MI5 to direct their coverage, or that the vote was secretly rigged.

    I'm not sure what you're wittering on about with the "Gaelic identities" reference. Gaelic is a language spoken primarily in the Western Isles. It's not an identity, nor is that sort of ethnic nationalism remotely helpful. We also don't give a toss about clans, the Campbells and MacDonalds don't still brawl over the Glencoe massacre and nor do we build our self-image around shortbread-tin nostalgia.
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    (Original post by jape)
    I remember back in 2014, I cared whether Scotland stayed in or not.

    Now I really don't. Screw off if you must - you'll just be a damper, smaller, crappier version of England anyway.
    This is genuinely quite depressing.

    Nationalists love trying to grind people down and slowly wear away at whatever unites us. It's a long, drawn-out process. At the risk of making a controversial comparison, it's largely the same thing the IRA were attempting with their mainland bombing campaign - it wasn't a military strategy, it was a PR one.

    It is, of course, entirely intentional with the SNP. It's also one of the ugliest sides of nationalism.
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    L i b

    Tbh I've only ever seen the "anyone but England" stuff as banter and I've never met a Scot who was actually hostile towards someone just for being English, although I'd imagine there's a minority of arse*holes who genuinely are. I think it's just disillusionment with Westminster that's created the current situation. The sneering mentality of some people in England certainly isn't helpful though.

    With regards to Gaelic identity I've visited parts of the Hebrides and found the locals very welcoming and they've never made an issue out of it, quite the contrary.

    Maybe I'm just thick skinned but I find Flower of Scotland funny and think "fair enough".
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    (Original post by RuWill2001)
    Why should she be shut up? She is one of the best politicians out there imo.
    What makes you say that? Not being rude, I've just genuinly not seen or heard anything from her to suggest she's an above average politican.
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    (Original post by Dec019)
    - Many people voted to remain in the UK because if Scotland left the UK it would have to apply to be in the EU again as an independent country which not only takes years but could be severely detrimental to Scotland's economy. FACT this was a main point for the remain campaign if you all weren't watching it closely back in 2014.

    -Now the Tory party (not the biggest in Scotland) and the English vote has dragged Scotland out of the EU out of her will. Hence you can see how many people could be upset.

    - Also with regards to Northern Ireland, this result could affect it's future in the UK too. Nationalism isn't about being anti United Kingdom, it relates to personal identity.

    - This is a democratic referendum and ofco should be respected. I'm just trying to give people a different perspective. Also isn't saying that a Leader of a major political party in the UK should 'shut up' undemocratic? We live in a great multi-cultural society with loads of mixes of views and perceptions. Its how our society works.
    Northern Ireland won't leave the UK, probably never. The vast majority there would be scared of economic collapse like the Scottish. Even the natonalists pro-Irish are too cosy with things like the NHS and sterling to leave. Plus the Republic couldn't support it's weak economy and it's deficit.

    Not to mention the near-civil war that there would be....
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    (Original post by L i b)
    This is genuinely quite depressing.

    Nationalists love trying to grind people down and slowly wear away at whatever unites us. It's a long, drawn-out process. At the risk of making a controversial comparison, it's largely the same thing the IRA were attempting with their mainland bombing campaign - it wasn't a military strategy, it was a PR one.

    It is, of course, entirely intentional with the SNP. It's also one of the ugliest sides of nationalism.
    That tends to be what happens when your country has a long history of pillage, murder and rape. Also this is happening because English nationalists voted to leave, believing that for some obscene reason they'll return to some superpower despite being told by all the professionals they will have a recession.
    Now racist attacks are increasing massively in England but not in Scotland or Northern Ireland and as far as I know, Wales.
    Comparing the IRA to SNP is like comparing ISIS to an arabic monarchy. The IRA not only was acting rogue and against the founding values of the original Irish Brotherhood and IRA, but against the opinion of the vast majority of Irish people.
    In the republic and most of the North the IRA are viewed as drug peddling terrorists.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    That tends to be what happens when your country has a long history of pillage, murder and rape. Also this is happening because English nationalists voted to leave, believing that for some obscene reason they'll return to some superpower despite being told by all the professionals they will have a recession.
    Now racist attacks are increasing massively in England but not in Scotland or Northern Ireland and as far as I know, Wales.
    Yeah, I'm not sure if I buy into anecdotal evidence on that front.

    I'm not sure what you mean when you suggest Scotland, presumably, is a "country has a long history of pillage, murder and rape". I don't think our history is particularly violent or martial - and most of what is happens to have been given a cheery Victorian veneer of romanticism.

    I don't think condemning everyone who voted Brexit (including 4 in 10 Scots, the majority of the Welsh and so on) are having some sort of empire fantasy is remotely representative.

    Comparing the IRA to SNP is like comparing ISIS to an arabic monarchy. The IRA not only was acting rogue and against the founding values of the original Irish Brotherhood and IRA, but against the opinion of the vast majority of Irish people.
    The SNP is acting against the wishes of a decisive majority of the Scottish people, of course.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    So Scottish people are bullish and nobody else ?
    And you ignored my argument. Very intelligent.
    No, just your behaviour.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    "No one cares about your little country." Maybe that arrogant attitude is why they want to leave. The rest of the EU has not said that, simply govnmts. like Spain afraid it will cause Catalan to leave if Scotland can join the EU. Catalan is now widely in favour of leaving, and would probably do much better without the Spanish half-formed government.
    This is something that concerns the Scottish people, who were lied to and exposed to shameful fear tactics during the referendum for independence. Clearly you are either ignorant of the gaelic identities and pride of many Scottish people or just stupid in general.
    (Original post by mcneill98)
    That's why she wants to leave the UK and apply to join please read the news dipshit.
    On the bolded, they don't, hence they voted to remain.lol. Did you miss that whole referendum business? It was in the news or something.......

    And before you say blah blah that was before Brexit, blah blah fear tactics, someone in this thread already posted a stat to say a vote would go the same way if ran now.

    As for the rest, for somebody posting so aggressively, your knowledge of this is sorely lacking. Spain and Belgium (the other country taking a similar position to Spain due to their Flemish situation), can veto Scottish ascension and have stated that they are inclined to do so. Did you not know this?

    Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union states it requires a unanimous decision among member states for a country to join the EU, thereby giving each country a veto over the admission of a new member.

    (Original post by mcneill98)
    1st rule of debating, if someone accuses their opponent of being "random" is a fool and lacks a clear argument.
    Second rule of debating: actually know what you're talking about before you call people "dipsh*ts" and make an arse out of yourself again. I say again because you'd think you'd have learnt your lesson after getting destroyed and embarrassed by Alexander Ham in that Syria thread after wading in with similar unnecessary anger and an understanding of the subject that could only be described as entirely lacking, as you have clearly done here.

    (Original post by mcneill98)
    If I wanted to flex my muscles, I wouldn't do it on an online forum.


    (Original post by L i b)
    That's quite an accusation to make. Care to substantiate it in some way? Because the only people I've ever heard to harp on about "lies" in the referendum campaign are extremists and, typically, a bit unhinged. The sort of people who think the BBC had secret meetings with MI5 to direct their coverage, or that the vote was secretly rigged.
    Pretty much. Case in point above

    (Original post by kimkarsd)
    No, just your behaviour.
    You've got to wonder what issues this person has, haven't you?
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    (Original post by alexjones1994)
    She just needs to give it a rest. No one cares about your little country.

    Even the rest of the EU said they don't want you if it means splitting up the UK. Does that not send a strong enough message? The rest of the UK is their biggest trading partner. They trade four times as much with the rest of the UK then the rest of Europe combined. Why would she sabotage that relationship? lol.

    Moron.
    No one can shut her up as she is democratically elected.

    That being said she's missed her chance the oil price was high brexit hadn't happened and even more people than before would vote remain when it comes down to it.

    She doesn't have any realistic answers to the hard questions and now with the new deal Scotland has on taxation she can no longer blame Westminster genuinely which is the operative word for why the Scottish government doesn't spend more on the things the Scottish people want.

    She taxes them more they don't like it, she taxes them the same and can't spend more they don't like it.

    The deal was clever in the way it was no lose for the uk government either way they win and the SNP's power will drop over the coming electoral cycles


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    (Original post by DicksOut4Haraam)
    leaving our glorious union
    what glorious union I just see a bunch off piss baby english
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    (Original post by Rubyzoe)
    what glorious union I just see a bunch off piss baby english
    Digging up an old thread simply to say vaguely racist things doesn't look very clever.
 
 
 
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