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I find it ridiculous when people talk down on religion watch

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    Religion has important cultural and historical significance. It gives people a sense of purpose, pride and contentment, whether or not that's imposed by the religion or if the religion is secondary. I have a different worldview for a different purpose, but it's not objectively better.
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    (Original post by Kayeen)
    Omg me too, like I completely respect that they have their own religion with beliefs and values but why the hell do they feel the need to come up to you when your in town and try to force their religion on you.
    Does this really happen? Like frequently or what? I'm guessing it's just how I've grown up but I've never really met a militant religious person or had anyone try to force their beliefs upon me, I have religious friends and my parents are religious as well, but my parents let me decide my beliefs and my friends have never imposed anything upon me; they hold their beliefs, I hold mine and thats the end of it. I really should try and experience more of the world I guess, but at this rate i don't think i want to
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    Depends if it's funny or not.
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    I find it funny sometimes that Anti-Theists have a problem with religious people passing on their beliefs to their children and people in their community, yet they feel the need to literally use the same tactics to convince religious people to not believe in their own religion. I'm I being unreasonable or...? Let me not start...

    And religion's not just about making people "happy", that sometimes sounds weird to me, like "happy" is the only thing someone can say as a positive about religion.

    I'm just going to say it without trying to sound like the "generic Christian" that most people seem to dislike. Religion's about finding spiritual peace with the highest Deity and Their teachings, being constantly reflective of one's behaviour and navigating your way through life as a whole. We encourage work with charities and communities to improve standards of living by using eg the Bible to encourage this. I know Islam has the Five Pillars of Islam, and I'm not sure of accuracy, but they dedicate part of their earnings back into their Mosque and community.

    People often skip these genuinely brilliant parts of Religion and just go for the "terrorist and deluded" arguments. I defo think religion as a system needs work (you guys forget that bad people can exist and we work to flush them out). The local Mosque wrote to our Church a letter of condolence for the beheading of the French Catholic priest, and not many people want to accept that the extremist terrorists are often denounced by Muslim communities, but I guess this doesn't make for a catchy headline...

    Religion's not bad, it's literally about interpretation and the individual. You can have the best textbook provided for a class of students, known to be the best there is, but if students don't know how to read and apply that knowledge with common sense, then of course they'll fail the test of life.
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    If only religious people kept their religion for themselves...
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    (Original post by StudentInSociety)
    I find it funny sometimes that Anti-Theists have a problem with religious people passing on their beliefs to their children and people in their community, yet they feel the need to literally use the same tactics to convince religious people to not believe in their own religion. I'm I being unreasonable or...? Let me not start...
    What "tactics"?
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    (Original post by lawyer3c)
    How/why is it "ignorant" to compare a religion to a fairy tale?
    I guess because fairy tales usually don't condone incest, slavery, rape, homophobia, racism, and sexism.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    I guess because fairy tales usually don't condone incest, slavery, rape, homophobia, racism, and sexism.
    A lot of the classic fairytales were actually very controversial in that sense, actually (an example is the Grimmer Brothers' Allerleirauh). They have since been watered down to make them appropriate for children.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    What "tactics"?
    Eg:

    You're a sinner for not believing = You're deluded for believing

    You'll be liberated from evil = You'll be liberated from religion

    Being religious gives you a sense of positive direction = Being Atheist gives you an open-minded perspective

    It says at chapter...verse ..., so this means you have to do this = Professor... proved..., so it means you have to discredit this.

    But sleeping with people means you don't respect the idea of Chasity until marriage. You can't do both. = But believing in this holy book means you don't believe in science and quantitative proof. You can't do both.

    disclaimer: these aren't generalisations, they're just things I've heard from both sides. "Tactics" wasn't supposed to sound like I was being malicious. I was pointing out that sometimes both sides take on the same tone and language. I was pointing out the hypocrisy, that anti-theists hate the way religious people go about "converting" people when they often sound exactly the same when trying to "un-convert" people.

    Also when I say "anti-theists", I mean people who actively try to discredit religion, as opposed to an "atheist" who merely doesn't believe in religion as a whole.
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    "Higher being" based religion is a fairy-tale, we live in the 3rd millennium, we know this? What's wrong with an exaggerated comparison that highlights the issue? It's like comparing EU-leave voters to Trump supports, it's an exaggeration but it legitimately highlights the issue.
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    (Original post by I am Kira)
    Mocking someones religion is not going to stop religion
    Tbh what would stop religion
    Yes it is, discussion is the only way to make people think logically. Theists have used fear to impose religion for years, so why can't we mock those sheep asking for it? Religion is clearly dying out in more developed countries, so it will die out, probably sooner than later. Dawkins has made masses of people think, and nameable masses yet convert. He's doing a good job.
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    (Original post by StudentInSociety)
    I find it funny sometimes that Anti-Theists have a problem with religious people passing on their beliefs to their children and people in their community, yet they feel the need to literally use the same tactics to convince religious people to not believe in their own religion. I'm I being unreasonable or...? Let me not start...

    And religion's not just about making people "happy", that sometimes sounds weird to me, like "happy" is the only thing someone can say as a positive about religion.

    I'm just going to say it without trying to sound like the "generic Christian" that most people seem to dislike. Religion's about finding spiritual peace with the highest Deity and Their teachings, being constantly reflective of one's behaviour and navigating your way through life as a whole. We encourage work with charities and communities to improve standards of living by using eg the Bible to encourage this. I know Islam has the Five Pillars of Islam, and I'm not sure of accuracy, but they dedicate part of their earnings back into their Mosque and community.

    People often skip these genuinely brilliant parts of Religion and just go for the "terrorist and deluded" arguments. I defo think religion as a system needs work (you guys forget that bad people can exist and we work to flush them out). The local Mosque wrote to our Church a letter of condolence for the beheading of the French Catholic priest, and not many people want to accept that the extremist terrorists are often denounced by Muslim communities, but I guess this doesn't make for a catchy headline...

    Religion's not bad, it's literally about interpretation and the individual. You can have the best textbook provided for a class of students, known to be the best there is, but if students don't know how to read and apply that knowledge with common sense, then of course they'll fail the test of life.
    Are you saying that non religious are less generous ? less caring ?
    The money spent on bibles could be spent on something that would actually help in real life.

    Nobody here is talking about terrorism. The problem with religion is interpretation, in the fact that it changes with the times. How can God support actions like slavery then but suddenly in the last 2000 years change his mind ? Nowadays everyone can be religious, even if they don't believe half of the stuff they preach. I recently heard that 10% of catholics in Ireland don't believe in God or heaven....
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    There is way too much generalisation in this thread. We can't stereotype every religious person not can we stereotype every atheist. There are good religious people and bad religious people just like there are good atheists and bad atheists. The key is not necessarily in the religion or lack of. But instead in the nature of the person.




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    (Original post by !!mentor!!)
    My point about that was there are SJWs out there who claim you can absolutely change your race if you identify with another race (in the same way that they believe you are a woman if you identify as a woman. They hold that belief as strongly as you hold your belief.




    I've never seen any of my religious friends undertake this kind of child raising. I've only ever seen this on TV. So my assumption is that indoctrination isn't wide spread.

    This is where logic comes into play. Race is about ethnic background, these people can go somewhere far away with their over-inflated PC crap. The word belief implies that there is no definite answer, in this case there is a right answer therefore it is not my belief.

    At baptisms these vows are taken by parents and godparents. How can you argue that a child being raised being told to pray and go to mass etc. isn't being indoctrinated ? Also, as is the case in Ireland, over 90% of all schools in Ireland are run by christian churches. They choose exactly what to teach in terms of religion and who to employ, also they can fully refuse children who are not the same religion.
    Peer pressure even comes into play, I knew friends who didn't believe, and parents didn't either, yet made their communion and confirmation simply because they went to a catholic school and didn't want to be the only one not doing it. Before you say they should have went to a different school etc. there is no other school within viable distance.
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    (Original post by mliela)
    There is way too much generalisation in this thread. We can't stereotype every religious person not can we stereotype every atheist. There are good religious people and bad religious people just like there are good atheists and bad atheists. The key is not necessarily in the religion or lack of. But instead in the nature of the person.




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    Why would someone in their sane mind identify as a religion that is openly against things as natural and human as sexuality, contraception etc. and until recently has supported slavery and persecution of non-believers ?
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    Only religion I actively talk negatively about is Islam, purely because it's such a backward and intolerant religion.
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    (Original post by mcneill98)
    Are you saying that non religious are less generous ? less caring ?
    The money spent on bibles could be spent on something that would actually help in real life.

    Nobody here is talking about terrorism. The problem with religion is interpretation, in the fact that it changes with the times. How can God support actions like slavery then but suddenly in the last 2000 years change his mind ? Nowadays everyone can be religious, even if they don't believe half of the stuff they preach. I recently heard that 10% of catholics in Ireland don't believe in God or heaven....
    No, non-religious people aren't "less caring", and frankly you do not need a religion to tell you to be. But I was pointing out that generosity and kindness is a part of all Religion's general ethos and is constantly reminded of religious people to continue. I was pointing out that this fact is generally ignored by people.

    Money spent on Bibles etc is an investment into The Cause for a greater yield for everyone else. We need Bibles to carry on teachings so that more people are inspired to carry on living by the words inside.

    As the context of contemporary times change, so does the way Bible teachings fit into modern context. The passages which touch on slavery refer to a different historical time. I really didn't want to put passages in this reply, but I'll give you examples:

    Colossians 4:1 Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven
    (It's catered to that context in order to reach the audience it was written for to preach about treatment of others)

    Exodus 21:16 Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
    (In the first book in the bible, slavery is actually shunned)

    1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.
    (This is about being the better person than all people through power in humble status)

    Sorry for putting those quotes there. I hope you read them but you don't have to (not trying to be preachy). Just trying to give rebuttal.

    Look at most contemporary arguments against religion nowadays, most of it IS based on terrorism. I had to point it out.

    People tend to lose faith based on people who surround them. Being around a group of religious people tends to keep a person going, as opposed to being around non-believers. That's just how life is.I got reintroduced back into religion when being around more young people who are Christians and I love it! I'm glad I strengthened my faith!
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    (Original post by StudentInSociety)
    No, non-religious people aren't "less caring", and frankly you do not need a religion to tell you to be. But I was pointing out that generosity and kindness is a part of all Religion's general ethos and is constantly reminded of religious people to continue. I was pointing out that this fact is generally ignored by people.

    Money spent on Bibles etc is an investment into The Cause for a greater yield for everyone else. We need Bibles to carry on teachings so that more people are inspired to carry on living by the words inside.

    As the context of contemporary times change, so does the way Bible teachings fit into modern context. The passages which touch on slavery refer to a different historical time. I really didn't want to put passages in this reply, but I'll give you examples:

    Colossians 4:1 Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven
    (It's catered to that context in order to reach the audience it was written for to preach about treatment of others)

    Exodus 21:16 Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.
    (In the first book in the bible, slavery is actually shunned)

    1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust.
    (This is about being the better person than all people through power in humble status)

    Sorry for putting those quotes there. I hope you read them but you don't have to (not trying to be preachy). Just trying to give rebuttal.

    Look at most contemporary arguments against religion nowadays, most of it IS based on terrorism. I had to point it out.

    People tend to lose faith based on people who surround them. Being around a group of religious people tends to keep a person going, as opposed to being around non-believers. That's just how life is.I got reintroduced back into religion when being around more young people who are Christians and I love it! I'm glad I strengthened my faith!
    Mankind survived for hundreds of thousands of years without religion, we do not need "the cause" to inspire... What we need is solid action that will lead to a better life for all, clean water, less conflict, more education ( real education ) and healthcare.
    Also my point about extremist religions still stand, they clearly preach hatred and provocations and yet are protected by the state.

    Why did God support slavery then but not now ? The question still stands. You cannot simply say it was another era, God is all-knowing surely he wouldn't have a mood swing and decide it is suddenly bad.
    Christianity has completed changed, if the average person now was judged by the religious 'standards' of hundreds of years ago, very very few of us would be going to heaven. So what version is right ?

    The statement here is " Do as your told, don't think for yourself and don't challenge religious authority."
    The opium of the people, for submissive people at least, which is probably why there are so many religion crazed women about compared to men.
    Religion adapts around people, people don't adapt around religion.


    Epicurus had a great quote of logic.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not capable ? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able. but not willing ? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing ? Then whence come evil ?
    Is he neither able nor willing ? Then why call him God ? "
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    This is just a pot for a brew of silly sarcastic comments that a majority of religious people will find offensive.
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    Why can't I mock them? If it was any other stupid belief system that wasn't so mainstream nobody cares if you mock them. Everyone mocks scientology and dismisses it as a cult so why not do the same to all the others?

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