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Warnings over Brexit from the big powers Watch

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    (Original post by Sephiroth)
    We won't be leaving the EU. It's quite obvious that Theresa May's job is to delay Brexit as long as possible until public opinion shifts, get some horrible exit deal and then put it to a new referendum.

    I voted leave and I am completely against any deal that allows free movement of people, so we absolutely must leave the single market. If Theresa May can't present a deal to the country that allows us to control immigration, IE a Norway or Switzerland style deal then I would rather we stay in the EU because doing that kind of deal is effectively staying while giving away our voice on EU affairs.

    Obama is a ********, nothing less. I used to think he was a great president but this Brexit business has changed my opinion. When the USA needs help fighting one of their wars the UK is the first country to come help them, yet when we need their help we're back of the queue? What the actual ****? I hope next time the US need support for a war we tell them where to go.
    The right always assume that all is well with the US and that they love and adore us, but it really isn't true - in reality, the US has always first and foremost acted in their own interests, including in WW2, when they ensured that our debts had to be repayed at extortionate rates whilst grudgingly supporting us but basically waiting to see which way things went before intervening. Once they did intervene, they bossed Britain and demanded everything go to their plan, which included dumping the former Empire in their laps. US interests by the way don't mean the interests of ordinary American people but the interests of the powerful elites and super-wealthy major capital owners.

    I thought Farage looked like roadkill caught in the headlights when he went over there to grovel to Trump.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    That is a clear contradiction.

    The people aren't to blame - poor leadership is to blame. If I was leading a country and the people voted against me, I would not think "those morons have made a bad decision", I'd think "I've failed to convince the people and to properly manage the country". The media is the least of our worries compared to the massive divide between people and politics that this referendum exposed.
    Where is the contradiction? Normally I would agree with you, but in a referendum/general election, the people are the politics, that's how a democracy works, how can you blame anyone except the people voting? No matter how good the leadership is, it only takes a few people like Farage and Gove to play on what people want to hear to convince them. People prefer a promising/hopeful lie to a plain/boring truth when they aren't smart enough to see the difference. (Religion in a nutshell).

    For example: Imagine if Trump gets elected. Who's fault is it? It's the peoples fault for voting him! Not all of them mind you, but enough for a majority. Listen to interviews of Trump supporters at a rally, the older generations are stubborn, they don't care or recognise a good argument when they see one, it doesn't matter how good the leadership is.

    The government can only go so far, but at some point the people have to take some responsibility for their actions. The people are the government in a democracy, "We the people" as it says in the US constitution, seeing the two as completely different entities does not do justice to what a society should be. If we lived in a dictatorship and things went wrong then of course you can blame the top. But in a democracy, where all people vote, and "the top" is elected general citizens, then you can't always blame them, they're just doing what the majority of the people elected them to do.
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    (Original post by macromicro)
    It's far too early to be making such claims.



    Obama - who is leaving office - already said we'd be 'at the back of the queue' and everyone understood the lengthy process of trade deals so this isn't news and changes nothing. Trump is all for Brexit. No matter what the scaremongers say, our relationship with the US will not change. The real concern is our relationship with the EU.



    There is no evidence for this. I will be extremely surprised if we have no form of EEA membership at all. I voted remain and would still like to remain but there is no use in scaremongering; it's desperate and irrational. We ought to be analysing the facts not screaming news headlines to suit our bias.
    Finally, a remainer who is not an economic moron!
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    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-trade-deal-UK
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...t-talks-Vienna
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lo...-a3307491.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...r-the-referen/
    https://www.theguardian.com/business...-brexit-so-far

    We're going to be absolutely fine.
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    We haven't left yet. Neither the Single Market or the EU itself.

    When we do, let's see if the story remains so positive, shall we?
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Finally, a remainer who is not an economic moron!
    Oi!!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    We haven't left yet. Neither the Single Market or the EU itself.

    When we do, let's see if the story remains so positive, shall we?
    Some of my Leave friends were saying this when the pound tanked after the vote. "Let's see after we actually leave and things really start to change...."

    Now that exports are up (ignoring that this is down to the pound being in the toilet lol) and they're gloating.

    Brexiteers, I swear......*
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    (Original post by JoeyTr)
    Where is the contradiction? Normally I would agree with you, but in a referendum/general election, the people are the politics, that's how a democracy works, how can you blame anyone except the people voting? No matter how good the leadership is, it only takes a few people like Farage and Gove to play on what people want to hear to convince them. People prefer a promising/hopeful lie to a plain/boring truth when they aren't smart enough to see the difference. (Religion in a nutshell).
    People are a product of society, which is run by leaders responsible for shaping the views of their nation - raising education levels for engagement in political discussion and well-reasoned voting; providing agreeable reasons for foreign and public policy; listening to the hoi polloi with an ear to the ground - and encouraging support for their party and campaigning effectively in a referendum. Both parties failed miserably in this regard, as they have essentially become the same party with a different face and identical deaf ears (hence the temporary rise of UKIP and Green), something I hate to admit that Peter Hitchens was right all along about (perhaps the only right thing he's said to date, mind you).

    You'd be hard pressed to find any substantial difference between these two skeletons of parties. Labour were truly embarrassed in this referendum; it's nothing short of laughable that Corbyn - who carried out the most pathetic and indifferent Remain non-campaign we could possibly imagine - is back to business as usual. At least Cameron was gracious enough to admit failure and in effect admit to a disconnect with his people and party. I agree the media is important in this but it is not so much the root problem as the catalyst. Despite voting remain, part of me is glad this occurred. It is a huge wake-up call to UK politics. Just dwell on this thought for a moment: 52% (17m) of the voting population disagree with or were not convinced by the TWO leading - and allegedly opposing - parties. It's difficult to exaggerate how significant of a political - not public - failure that is. It's quite rare that even the Official Opposition cannot play the 'rebound' for those dissatisfied with the leaders of the country.

    (Original post by JoeyTr)
    For example: Imagine if Trump gets elected. Who's fault is it? It's the peoples fault for voting him! Not all of them mind you, but enough for a majority. Listen to interviews of Trump supporters at a rally, the older generations are stubborn, they don't care or recognise a good argument when they see one, it doesn't matter how good the leadership is.
    Don't you think this is a slightly cyclical argument? You're blaming the people, raised in a society, for having the wrong opinion which was shaped by the actions of those leading that society (and exacerbated by the media). We are a product of our environment's ingredients. Trump's supporters are a logical consequence to years of pseudo-liberal, ultra-PC censorship; decades of political leaders refusing to admit the danger of Islamism (despite the New Atheist movement predicting it some two decades ago) out of fear of being attacked by the regressive left, and the nonsense belief that any diversity is good diversity so long as we have the moral highground. The result of this is plain for all to see: immigration that cannot sensibly be maintained, religious extremism from within, multi-cultural and theistic tension, estrangement of people and party, and now an explosion of voters at their wits' end, many of whom find solace in someone who finally offers a simple solution to all their woes: build walls and kick 'em out (which I disagree with but have sympathy for).

    (Original post by JoeyTr)
    People have to take some responsibility for their actions. The people are the government in a democracy, "We the people" as it says in the US constitution, seeing the two as completely different entities does not do justice to what a society should be. If we lived in a dictatorship and things went wrong then of course you can blame the top. But in a democracy, where all people vote, and "the top" is elected general citizens, then you can't always blame them, they're just doing what the majority of the people elected them to do.
    I agree that we of course have some responsibility, but I do find it very difficult to blame people who are consistently not listened to, who are affected most by immigration, who are often choosing between the lesser of two political evils in a so-called democracy, who come from a high-crime, high-immigrant area, who are unable to cope with such rapid change in culture, who are perhaps more easily moulded by the press and public figures, etc. It is the responsibility of the government to empathise and negotiate with these people. What is ironic now is how the same people who celebrate the Orwellian uprising of the proletariat are the same people relegating the UK working-class and unemployed as nothing more than stupid for taking us out the EU. Fiction is suddenly not so romantic when it becomes reality.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Brexit
    [Brex-it]

    noun
    1. Brexit

    Brexit means Brexit.
    cur: the state of intending to leave an institution esp the European Union at an indeterminate time in the future

    syn: ad Kalendas Graecas, the twelfth of never; when hell freezes over; when the United Kingdom satisfies the five economic tests

    obs: leaving the European Union
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Some of my Leave friends were saying this when the pound tanked after the vote. "Let's see after we actually leave and things really start to change...."

    Now that exports are up (ignoring that this is down to the pound being in the toilet lol) and they're gloating.

    Brexiteers, I swear......*
    Lol, tbf we all make things fit our own agenda. Even though exports are up we're a net importer so surely it can't be good in the long run?

    Right now the only thing affecting me is beer and food costing more when I next go on holiday, thanks Brexiteers.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Theresa May has flown into China to receive a wave of warnings and cold rebuttals from world leaders about Brexit.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37269916

    Obama says there won't be a separate trade deal with the UK for a long time to come, a big blow for the confidence Brexiteers spouted during the campaign about how easy it would be to conjure up new trade deals to replace the old ones. May is starting this process off with Australia - not exactly one of the biggest economies - currently about 20th in most tables. :lol:

    The EU is demanding to know if we intend to stay in the Single Market. Apparently, led by the Tory idiots who got us into this mess in the first place, the direction of travel is to leave. As soon as that is announced, the UK economy will plunge down, dozens of major companies will start to prepare to leave and the £ will hit rock bottom and inflation and unemployment will surge. No surprise that the government aren't saying! :rolleyes:

    We have a long way to go, but with May constantly stating that Brexit is a done deal (when really it should be voted on in Parliament and a deal put to the nation in another referendum), it's already clear that the government we have are too incompetent to manage this well and things are going to get bad - as May herself admitted today.
    Obama said that there would be no prioritising the UK after brexit well before the brexit vote. The UK cannot stay in the single market without accepting EU rules and paying their fees.
    Companies will leave the EU due to no access to the EU, this was said months ago also. Did any brexiteers listen ? Don't listen to the experts in the banks type BS reigned instead.
    The UK has just annoyed China over suspending the Hinkley nuclear plant, USA and EU are refusing quick trade deals, who is there left ? Russia ? May and Putin getting awfully friendly... would be an interesting plot twist anyway....
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    Business is booming brexit saved us.. We just had our greatest ever olympics thanks for brave brexiteers
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Business is booming brexit saved us.. We just had our greatest ever olympics thanks for brave brexiteers
    Apart from London 2012?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Business is booming brexit saved us.. We just had our greatest ever olympics thanks for brave brexiteers
    Haha, gr8 b8 m8.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Apart from London 2012?

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36970388

    Every brave courageous brexiteer deserves a knighthood
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36970388

    Every brave courageous brexiteer deserves a knighthood
    Yet we had more gold medals last time.
    Thus it constituted a more successful games.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yet we had more gold medals last time.
    Thus it constituted a more successful games.

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    I am afraid thats not the criteria we judge our success on.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-08-21/b...s-for-team-gb/

    Better still, we are the first nation to host an olympics and then go on to an even better haul 4 years later. That makes it 99.9999% certain that brave British folk fighting for Britiain and Brexit back home inspired our athletes in Rio

    Never have so many owed so much, to so few
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yet we had more gold medals last time.
    Thus it constituted a more successful games.

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    The games are competitions between nations in winning medals. The total medals won by each nation are scored in a medal table.

    We came 3rd in the medal table last time and 2nd in the medal table this time.

    That we did better in these games is a simple matter of fact.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Never have so many owed so much, to so few
    What about that time a few hundred pilots saved an entire nation from conquest by a foreign aggressor?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I am afraid thats not the criteria we judge our success on.

    http://www.itv.com/news/2016-08-21/b...s-for-team-gb/

    Better still, we are the first nation to host an olympics and then go on to an even better haul 4 years later. That makes it 99.9999% certain that brave British folk fighting for Britiain and Brexit back home inspired our athletes in Rio

    Never have so many owed so much, to so few
    You do realise the medal table is based upon gold medals, not silvers and bronzes?
    You're intriguing.

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