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    Why waste time worrying about the inevitable, enjoy your life OP
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    I think accepting the low points in life for what they are is better than waiting to die so things can get better, doing something about those down times now makes the good times feel all the more better.
    I didn't mean that people should sit around and 'wait to die so things can get better' - like I said, one can draw strength and inspiration from the belief in a pleasant afterlife and use this to get out of the situation that causes you to be down.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    When you believe in the after life it's sometimes difficult to actually have up times as you're constantly worrying about gods wrath and such.
    Nah, God is forgiving and if you live a good life you have nothing to worry about anyway
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    I didn't mean that people should sit around and 'wait to die so things can get better' - like I said, one can draw strength and inspiration from the belief in a pleasant afterlife and use this to get out of the situation that causes you to be down.
    I didn't deny that people do draw strength and inspiration from a belief in the afterlife, I just prefer to turn to the strength of the human spirit, communicate with family and friends, seek professional advice if needed, be real and inspire myself, and be inspired by others. I find no appeal in turning to something for which there's absolutely no proof to be the solution for my problems, I do understand many people do it and that's fine


    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Nah, God is forgiving and if you live a good life you have nothing to worry about anyway
    Unless you're a Deist or any other type of non-theist believer, chances are your god has a list of things you need to believe, do and refrain from before you can enjoy the good times, if she was kind and forgiving she'd let us all enjoy the good times. Unfortunately for people such as my self who reject Allah, Christ and other gods, hell is the final abode, and what an evil place it is
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    (Original post by GradeA*UnderA)
    Am I the only one gets extremely worried about death when I think about it? It's probably the most scary concept out there. The thought of losing all your knowledge, relationships, memories and conscience was enough to give me a heart palpitation. Kinda makes me wish I could believe in religion, just for the comfort aspect.
    It's the only guarantee of life, that's why I get out there and live it before the final bow

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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    I didn't deny that people do draw strength and inspiration from a belief in the afterlife, I just prefer to turn to the strength of the human spirit, communicate with family and friends, seek professional advice if needed, be real and inspire myself, and be inspired by others. I find no appeal in turning to something for which there's absolutely no proof to be the solution for my problems, I do understand many people do it and that's fine
    Once again, those things are not mutually exclusive. I can do all the things you name above, and still derive strength and inspiration from knowing there will be an afterlive - and from all the other comfort and reassurance Christianity offers. You're implicitly portraying Christians as fanatics with tunnel vision. Yeah, the most annoying Christians are like that, but they really just give the moderate majority a bad name.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Unless you're a Deist or any other type of non-theist believer, chances are your god has a list of things you need to believe, do and refrain from before you can enjoy the good times, if she was kind and forgiving she'd let us all enjoy the good times.
    It's really just about what you do and don't do - and you don't want to tell me you think what is written down in the ten commandments are unreasonable and bad things? Imagine what a wonderful world we'd have if everyone followed them. God IS kind and forgiving - but if you murder someone... uh oh. Not cool.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    It's really just about what you do and don't do - and you don't want to tell me you think what is written down in the ten commandments are unreasonable and bad things? Imagine what a wonderful world we'd have if everyone followed them. God IS kind and forgiving - but if you murder someone... uh oh. Not cool.
    I can't take the ten commandments seriously, especially after having seen this video.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh58rIyABag

    It's only really from about the 30 second mark to the 45 second mark that's of any relevance but yeah

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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Once again, those things are not mutually exclusive. I can do all the things you name above, and still derive strength and inspiration from knowing there will be an afterlive - and from all the other comfort and reassurance Christianity offers. You're implicitly portraying Christians as fanatics with tunnel vision. Yeah, the most annoying Christians are like that, but they really just give the moderate majority a bad name.



    It's really just about what you do and don't do - and you don't want to tell me you think what is written down in the ten commandments are unreasonable and bad things? Imagine what a wonderful world we'd have if everyone followed them. God IS kind and forgiving - but if you murder someone... uh oh. Not cool.
    You keep saying they're not mutually exclusive and I keep agreeing with you, so stop saying it you're stating your preferred belief and I am simply stating mine.

    One thing to consider about your thinking, many people in low points of their lives have turned to their faith and ended up carrying out acts of violence and terror. Think of the Islamist suicide bombers, they're generally down, their faith tells them that martyrdom will bring them eternal peace and happiness, so what do they go and do?

    And before you say there is no concept of Jihad in Christianity:

    “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” Luke 19:27

    Funny that the 10 commandments say don't kill, yet a verse from the bible calls for mass killing!! The hipocracy

    Following any belief system requires a leap of faith and I'd prefer not to take such a leap!!
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    You keep saying they're not mutually exclusive and I keep agreeing with you, so stop saying it you're stating your preferred belief and I am simply stating mine.
    Thing is, you keep stating your preferred belief as if it were irreconcilable with Christian teachings, and with an air of superiority. I merely want to correct that notion.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    One thing to consider about your thinking, many people in low points of their lives have turned to their faith and ended up carrying out acts of violence and terror.
    Yeah, there are people who misunderstand the message and do that. But there are way more non-believers who harm themselves or others when down.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Think of the Islamist suicide bombers, they're generally down, their faith tells them that martyrdom will bring them eternal peace and happiness, so what do they go and do?
    Nah, they're generally not down, just radicalised. Combined with Islam having rather violent inherent tendencies, a promise of heaven appealing to young men (virgins and ****), and influential hate preachers - and you get terror.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    And before you say there is no concept of Jihad in Christianity:

    “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” Luke 19:27

    Funny that the 10 commandments say don't kill, yet a verse from the bible calls for mass killing!! The hipocracy
    *hipocrisy

    Yawn, that old thing again? It's an eschatological parable taken out of context, do your homework (http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2014/0...believers.html)

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Following any belief system requires a leap of faith and I'd prefer not to take such a leap!!
    Ok, cool.
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    If the only reason to believe in religion is fear of death then there is your reason NOT to believe.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Thing is, you keep stating your preferred belief as if it were irreconcilable with Christian teachings, and with an air of superiority. I merely want to correct that notion.
    Atheists/Agnostics always get blamed for acting superior when we just state/defend our beliefs. I wasn't trying to come across as superior, I think that's just you n your inferiority complex.

    Yeah, there are people who misunderstand the message and do that. But there are way more non-believers who harm themselves or others when down.
    Any sources for this.


    Nah, they're generally not down, just radicalised. Combined with Islam having rather violent inherent tendencies, a promise of heaven appealing to young men (virgins and ****), and influential hate preachers - and you get terror.
    Any believer in magic and fairy tales has the potential to become radicalised, not just Muslims, when you sacrifice reason for faith the outcome is generally a negative one.

    Yawn, that old thing again? It's an eschatological parable taken out of context, do your homework (http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2014/0...believers.html)
    I don't do out of context, people who use religion to gain power often do so through violence and when they do they don't take a verses context in to consideration. The verse seems violent and shouldn't be there as it calls for the killing of those who don't accept Christ.

    Ok, cool.
    Cool
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    *hipocrisy
    *hypocrisy

    If you're going to correct me at least get it right yourself

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...lish/hypocrisy
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Atheists/Agnostics always get blamed for acting superior when we just state/defend our beliefs. I wasn't trying to come across as superior, I think that's just you n your inferiority complex.
    Why should I have an inferiority complex? I have already more achieved in life than you ever will. So, I'm good, thanks.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Any sources for this.
    If this is a question (not sure - you used the wrong punctuation mark), let me counter-ask: Any sources for your ******** claim?

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Any believer in magic and fairy tales has the potential to become radicalised, not just Muslims,
    You call it magic and fairy tales, 2.2b Christians call it the universal truth and ultimate wisdom. I'd say you're wrong.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    [...]when you sacrifice reason for faith the outcome is generally a negative one.
    Thing is, you don't have to sacrifice reason to be a Christian. Believing in something that you can't prove or disprove exists does not contradict reason.

    Also, the concept of mercy (which an atheist/agnostic would call inconsequence) or altruism (sub-optimal result for you), which are central elements of the Christian faith, make for better collective outcomes.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    I don't do out of context
    Well, you used that citation out of context, so you clearly do do out of context

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    [...]people who use religion to gain power often do so through violence and when they do they don't take a verses context in to consideration.
    Yeah, some people do that, and that's regrettable. Unfortunately (for you), a LOT more people use violence without a religious background, while many religious prevent and fight violence.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)


    It's really just about what you do and don't do - and you don't want to tell me you think what is written down in the ten commandments are unreasonable and bad things? Imagine what a wonderful world we'd have if everyone followed them. God IS kind and forgiving - but if you murder someone... uh oh. Not cool.
    If everyone followed the laws we would have a wonderful world, too...what's your point?

    Or are you one of those claiming a monopoly on morals for religion?
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    The verse seems violent and shouldn't be there as it calls for the killing of those who don't accept Christ.
    The people who wrote the Bible expected readers to have the patience and diligence to read a whole paragraph and understand parables, written in the language of the time. Sadly, you don't seem to fulfill these criteria.

    Just feeds my theory that atheists are just too unintelligent to understand Christianity.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    If everyone followed the laws we would have a wonderful world, too...what's your point?

    Or are you one of those claiming a monopoly on morals for religion?
    Absolutely. Morals and laws have nothing to do with each other. Laws basically only prevent that we don't kill each other without consequences (and pay our taxes, and don't speed, ...). The ten commandments, and definitely the rest of Christian teachings, go much further and actually teach morals, ethics, and values.
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Absolutely. Morals and laws have nothing to do with each other. Laws basically only prevent that we don't kill each other without consequences (and pay our taxes, and don't speed, ...). The ten commandments, and definitely the rest of Christian teachings, go much further and actually teach morals, ethics, and values.
    No but the Ten Commandments on their own are just laws. So they have everything to do with each other.

    Not to mention that our laws are heavily influenced by what we consider right and wrong - i.e. by our morals.

    And what values do they teach? If you like little kids, it's ok to molest them, the Church will just send you to another parish and silence the family and police?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    No but the Ten Commandments on their own are just laws. So they have everything to do with each other.
    You said 'the laws', i.e. our modern, secular laws. The ten commandments are not part of non-religious law anywhere in the world. Make up your mind what you want to talk about.

    (Original post by yudothis)
    Not to mention that our laws are heavily influenced by what we consider right and wrong - i.e. by our morals.
    Meh, that's a small part of the law, and that part is pretty similar in many countries of varying degrees of religiousness.

    (Original post by yudothis)
    And what values do they teach? If you like little kids, it's ok to molest them, the Church will just send you to another parish and silence the family and police?
    Those 'values' are certainly not taught in Christianity. You're talking about a few hundred people, letting the hundreds of millions who have modeled themselves into good people on Christian values go unmentioned.
    And what about the thousands (millions?) who have pedophile tendencies but suppress them or seek treatment because they know harming children would be against what Christianity teaches?
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    Why should I have an inferiority complex? I have already more achieved in life than you ever will. So, I'm good, thanks.
    Oh you know so much about my life don't you X


    If this is a question (not sure - you used the wrong punctuation mark), let me counter-ask: Any sources for your ******** claim?
    Which claim have I made which you need me to provide you a source for?

    You call it magic and fairy tales, 2.2b Christians call it the universal truth and ultimate wisdom. I'd say you're wrong.
    2.2b call it universal truth over 3.5b don't, I must be right then?

    Thing is, you don't have to sacrifice reason to be a Christian. Believing in something that you can't prove or disprove exists does not contradict reason.
    "Faith consists in believing what reason does not believe", Voltaire

    Well, you used that citation out of context, so you clearly do do out of context
    Still a verse which calls to violence and could easily be used by a Christian leader to stir up hatred towards people who reject Christ.
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Oh you know so much about my life don't you X
    I know enough about you and your intellect and intelligence from this thread to make that prediction.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Which claim have I made which you need me to provide you a source for?
    Let's start with "many" people in "low points of their lives" have "turned to their faith" and ended up carrying out acts of violence and terror.

    Just how many inaccuracies and poorly defined terms are in there? And how does their number compare to people -at low points or not- who committed acts of violence and terror without any involvement of faith? How many of the shootings in the USA (apart from the war in Syria surely the biggest source of loss of lifes through violence right now) are religiously motivated? And how many acts of violence and terror have been prevented by faith?

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    2.2b call it universal truth over 3.5b don't, I must be right then?
    Nah, I am sure you refer to any religion as 'magic and fairy tales', so that makes it 6bn vs 1bn.

    Btw, your maths doesn't add up.

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    "Faith consists in believing what reason does not believe", Voltaire
    "Since reason would be impossible without laws of logic, which stem from the Christian faith, we have a very good reason for our faith: without our faith we could not reason. Even unbelievers (inconsistently) rely upon Christian principles, such as logic, whenever they reason about anything. So the Christian has a good reason for his or her faith. In fact, the Christian faith system makes reason possible."

    - Dr. Jason Lisle (PhD in Astrophysics) (https://answersingenesis.org/apologe...ith-vs-reason/)

    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Still a verse which calls to violence and could easily be used by a Christian leader to stir up hatred towards people who reject Christ.
    Not if you read it as intended, and as any thinking individual would who doesn't desperately try to make a non-existent point would
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    (Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil)
    You said 'the laws', i.e. our modern, secular laws. The ten commandments are not part of non-religious law anywhere in the world. Make up your mind what you want to talk about.



    Meh, that's a small part of the law, and that part is pretty similar in many countries of varying degrees of religiousness.



    Those 'values' are certainly not taught in Christianity. You're talking about a few hundred people, letting the hundreds of millions who have modeled themselves into good people on Christian values go unmentioned.
    And what about the thousands (millions?) who have pedophile tendencies but suppress them or seek treatment because they know harming children would be against what Christianity teaches?
    They are a set of laws, we have our set of laws. What's so hard to understand?

    So you agree, religion has no influence on morals? Good.

    Except these perps were leaders of the Church, and they were protected by the very ups of the Church. That is vastly different to "just a few hundred out of all the millions of Christians".
 
 
 
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