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B1053 – NHS Reform Bill 2016 Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Again, what is it with you guys and wanting to waste money for no results? The only plastic surgery offered by the NHS should be reconstructive, or shall I pen a bill to make all cosmetic surgery free on the NHS, after all, if you give a suicidal person who doesn't like their nose a nose job they're definitely not jumping in front of that train they're statistically still going to throw themselves in front of.
    And where have I suggested plastic surgery other than reconstructive plastic surgery should be on funded by the NHS. In fact where have I mentioned plastic surgery, I've mentioned hormonal treatment and gender reassignment surgery, but not plastic surgery, and if you read my entire post it does say I agree with parts of this bill, just the parts I disagree on are massive red lines. It's unparliamentary to say someone is lying, but you are just putting words into my mouth, and then proceeding to berate me based on something I haven't even said.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    And where have I suggested plastic surgery other than reconstructive plastic surgery should be on funded by the NHS. In fact where have I mentioned plastic surgery, I've mentioned hormonal treatment and gender reassignment surgery, but not plastic surgery, and if you read my entire post it does say I agree with parts of this bill, just the parts I disagree on are massive red lines. It's unparliamentary to say someone is lying, but you are just putting words into my mouth, and then proceeding to berate me based on something I haven't even said.
    The problem here as I see it is that half the people consider GRS to be cosmetic, while the other half do not.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    And where have I suggested plastic surgery other than reconstructive plastic surgery should be on funded by the NHS. In fact where have I mentioned plastic surgery, I've mentioned hormonal treatment and gender reassignment surgery, but not plastic surgery, and if you read my entire post it does say I agree with parts of this bill, just the parts I disagree on are massive red lines. It's unparliamentary to say someone is lying, but you are just putting words into my mouth, and then proceeding to berate me based on something I haven't even said.
    If GRS isn't plastic surgery what it is, given it is by definition plastic surgery, cosmetic plastic at that.

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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    The problem here as I see it is that half the people consider GRS to be cosmetic, while the other half do not.
    And Kay is going to a WHOLE new level and is suggesting it isn't even plastic surgery

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    And Kay is going to a WHOLE new level and is suggesting it isn't even plastic surgery

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    GRS is plastic surgery, but it's not purely cosmetic. There is my opinion.
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    GRS is plastic surgery, but it's not purely cosmetic. There is my opinion.
    Who which area of non cosmetic plastic does it come under, because the way I see it is if it isn't under anything else (it isn't) it's cosmetic. That and the whole point of the surgery is aesthetic changes, which is pretty much exclusive to cosmetic

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    If GRS isn't plastic surgery what it is, given it is by definition plastic surgery, cosmetic plastic at that.

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    Perhaps I should have been clearer in that I was only talking about GRS (and hormonal treatment), some of which is plastic surgery (although not all, given GRS is used as a catch all term for a number of different surgeries, including but not limited to genital surgery). That is where I took problem with your comments, and felt you were both putting words into my mouth and therefore twisting what I was saying.

    I would also argue that while it may be cosmetic in regard to the fact it chances the appearance of the person, it is, normally, performed as part of a larger treatment plan for gender dysphoria, making it a medical treatment as much as a cosmetic one, and therefore different to say a nose job. Although I know you will dismiss this outright anyway so I don't know why I'm even bothering to type this.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Nay, due to 2(4) and 2(5). I'd be fine with a provision ensuring a person has to have counselling for a certain period of time before hand, but ultimately I agree with the points iEthan has made
    I will be opposing this bill for the same reasons as Petros stated above.
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    Nay, the NHS should be allowed to choose how it spends it money.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Nay, the NHS should be allowed to choose how it spends it money.
    That is if the NHS survives the 'libertarians'.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    That is if the NHS survives the 'libertarians'.
    Let's hope it doesn't.
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    (Original post by RomanBowling33)
    Let's hope it doesn't.
    MHoC MPs are a clever bunch so I imagine it will.
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    Well we wouldn't completely disband the NHS immediately, that would be too risky for the public and it would need sufficient time.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Well we wouldn't completely disband the NHS immediately, that would be too risky for the public and it would need sufficient time.
    The correct answer is "we wouldn't disband the NHS at all".
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    The correct answer is "we wouldn't disband the NHS at all".
    You are right, we wouldn't, we would simply look at privatisation to improve it to an above "average" standard.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    You are right, we wouldn't, we would simply look at privatisation to improve it to an above "average" standard.
    This debate is about the NHS so it's not entirely off topic. Why would privatisation improve it?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    This debate is about the NHS so it's not entirely off topic. Why would privatisation improve it?
    Well when you look at things such as mental health, it really isn't good enough in this country. The state have proved that they don't give it so much priority.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Well when you look at things such as mental health, it really isn't good enough in this country. The state have proved that they don't give it so much priority.
    That's not a reason. That's like saying the car isn't fast enough so I'll walk. The solution you're looking for is 'the state should give it more of a priority' not 'we should destroy a treasured, popular, comparatively cost-efficient, morally positive institution and replace it with an ugly mess of profiteering that hangs the vulnerable to dry for no reason whatsoever'.
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    That's not a reason. That's like saying the car isn't fast enough so I'll walk. The solution you're looking for is 'the state should give it more of a priority' not 'we should destroy a treasured, popular, comparatively cost-efficient, morally positive institution and replace it with an ugly mess of profiteering that hangs the vulnerable to dry for no reason whatsoever'.
    Well thats why we would be sure that any company or organisation can offer a great service. The NHS is failing and no government can fix this, what we need to do is look at so many options.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Well thats why we would be sure that any company or organisation can offer a great service. The NHS is failing and no government can fix this, what we need to do is look at so many options.
    How is the NHS failing?

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