How come only 49% of us go to uni?

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    (Original post by Shipreck)
    There is a large majority of the working class that either don't think they will be smart enough to get a degree, or are so poor they have to work when they leave school so they just go into apprenticeships.
    My youngest daughter is an AAT apprentice. My eldest did AS at a crappy college, then started working, soon to be promoted to office manager at 21.
    Middle one at Sussex.
    So uni isn't for everyone, but a lot also has to do with their aspirations and parents encouragement
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    No one in my school did this and in some of the nearby schools only a very small amount of people actually dropped out of school at 16. I don't personally know anyone who has done this. It is very rare since teachers often warn about the dangers of leaving school at 16.
    We aren't talking about people who dropped out at 16 we are talking about people who either continued level 2 studies / started level 2 apprenticeships as they didn;t get enough A*-C to progress to level 3 and people who took level 3 courses at FE colleges or joined level 3 + apprentice schemes from GCSE ...

    Also i'm guessing in your twisted world those who went to 'boy entry' ( Army Foundation College etc )in HM forces are also drop outs ... as are those who entered at 'adult' entry points for RO with level 2 or 3 qualifications ...
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    So you think your sample of peers is representative of the general population?

    Please, you're being quite narrow minded here. I know many people from my school who either studied vocational courses, or worked straight away, or became parents. Please realise that there's more to "reality" than those you know at school.

    Also, apprenticeships. These can work out a better option for the more "male oriented" courses that is, such as electrical engineering. My friend's boyfriend was an apprentice for electrical engineering, and before his apprenticeship ended he was offered a £30k job. Whereas myself and my friends who've just graduated from a RG uni in a non-vocational course wouldn't even consider applying for a 30k job, due to lack of experience.
    the other thing to consider with Engineering etc is for technician roles a level 3 or 3+ apprentice ship is the route to technician type roles and it;s also the historical route for significant number of Professional Engineers ( via HNC and HND studied part time along with work - it's only in the past decade or so that IEng has required a degree and CEng required a masters) - it's still the main route for Marine Engineers ( cadetships) as the degree Marine Engineers are more likely to end up working for ship builders / engine builders than actually going to sea
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Compare from how at the start of term (round about now) the universities are rammed. Move on another two and a bit years down the line, and see how many are left. A 50% drop out i actually an underestimation. I can say this as someone who got their degree, and access qualification, and nearly died in the process!

    If you think university is anything like school, just try going yourself. It is like jumping in at the deep end, when you have only just passed your ten metres! seriously
    See http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset...016-en#page168

    70% of UK university students complete their courses within the expected time. 80% have finished after a further 3 years. UK drop out rates are very low internationally.
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ion_attainment

    I saw this table which says that only 49% of 25-34 years in the UK have a degree from a university. But I don't think I know anyone who isn't going to uni- everyone in my school last year and the last three years went to university and this year everyone I know I'm my year is planning to go to university. So how come it's only 49% when in reality it's so much higher? Do a lot of people drop out of uni and not get their degree?
    While you're on wikipedia have a read of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias
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    (Original post by JavaScriptMaster)
    49% have a degree, that means they finished university. There could be a lot more that enrolled and then quit or failed
    No it means they have an HE qualification - the OECD (which these stats are from) include Foundation Degrees, HNDs, Ordinary Degrees as HE attainment as well as Honours Degrees.

    The OECD also look at drop out rates and the UK has the lowest drop out and highest completion rate in the world.
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    That 49% is the reason we now have so much underemployment with graduate baristas, mechanics, technicians, drivers, restaurant workers, shop assistants.....

    As a country we simply don't need this many graduates. It should be seen as perfectly acceptable to leave school or go to college, get an apprenticeship, get a trade and work with your hands. And you know who created the aim of half of all school leavers going to uni which resulted in the current mess? The Labour Party.
    There's no evidence for what you're claiming

    See http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post62168177 onwards.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    There's no evidence for what you're claiming

    See http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post62168177 onwards.
    Looks like you missed that I said underemployment rather than unemployment.

    If you're going to quote data why not use the most up to date version. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...stics-2015.pdf The link is largely irrelevant, but there are a couple of interesting quotes:

    "[young graduates] had lower high skilled employment rates than the overall working age population across all qualification categories"

    "Graduates saw a decline in the proportion working in high skilled jobs"

    Plus anecdotal evidence from family, friends and posts on TSR.
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    About half sounds right to me. More than half of my friends went to uni but I grew up in a relatively wealthy area (not private school or anything) and I've worked in a school where very few went on to A levels let along uni.
    1. You will get some wealthier areas where the majority of students go to university and you get some poorer areas where the majority of students don't go to university. You obviously come from a wealthy area but the other places do exist, you probably just don't have a social network in a poor area.
    2. People do drop out of university.
    3. Even within a school smart kids tend to get on with smart kids and the less academic kids tend to mix more with less academic kids so the people you spoke to more and kept in contact with would have been the ones who were more likely to pursue uni rather than vocational careers.
    4. Usually colleges/6th forms focus on either A levels (and so most people go on to uni) or vocational subjects (and most people don't go to uni) so again if you did A levels you'd be separated from those least likely to go to uni.
    5. In a lot of areas people go on and on about how uni is the only/best option so people who choose not to go will be more likely to keep quiet.
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    Looks like you missed that I said underemployment rather than unemployment.

    If you're going to quote data why not use the most up to date version. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...stics-2015.pdf The link is largely irrelevant, but there are a couple of interesting quotes:

    "[young graduates] had lower high skilled employment rates than the overall working age population across all qualification categories"

    "Graduates saw a decline in the proportion working in high skilled jobs"

    Plus anecdotal evidence from family, friends and posts on TSR.
    If you're going to quote reports then quote in full "perhaps suggesting it might take time for young people to become established
    in the labour market or to reach the higher levels in organisations that are captured by the high skilled employment rate measure"

    As with the previous year's report the telling statistics are in the time series. Even focusing just on "underemployment" if you carry on reading to Figure 5Name:  Highskillemploymentrates.PNG
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    It's clear that although there has been a slight decrease in "high skill" employment for young graduates in 2015 compared to 2014 the proportions are still above 2013 and still show a massive difference between graduates and non-graduates with only a very very gradual fall over the last decade.

    Over that same decade tertiary education achievement rates for 25-35 year holds have increased from 35% to 49% - that's an enormous increase in the number of graduates with a very small fall (5%) in "high skilled" employment.
    http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset...2016-en#page45
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Name:  Highskillemploymentrates.PNG
Views: 51
Size:  23.5 KB
    Since 2006 the non-graduate high-skilled employment rate fell 2.9 percentage points. For graduates it fell 5 percentage points. As more graduates enter the workforce the proportion of graduates in high-skilled jobs falls.

    Your other link adds nothing, there's no disputing the fact the number of graduates has increased. And that's my point - there aren't sufficient jobs for them all which is why many graduates end up working in shops and bars etc.

    If you're aware of any data regarding underemployment rather than unemployment I'll happily read it.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    See http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset...016-en#page168

    70% of UK university students complete their courses within the expected time. 80% have finished after a further 3 years. UK drop out rates are very low internationally.
    Maybe you haven't been to university, but that certainly wasn't the impression given when i went!
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    (Original post by john2054)
    Maybe you haven't been to university, but that certainly wasn't the impression given when i went!
    I'm a graduate and have worked in universities for over a decade.
    There's obviously variation between universities and subjects but the vast majority of HE students in the UK finish their course within the expected time.
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ion_attainment

    I saw this table which says that only 49% of 25-34 years in the UK have a degree from a university. But I don't think I know anyone who isn't going to uni- everyone in my school last year and the last three years went to university and this year everyone I know I'm my year is planning to go to university. So how come it's only 49% when in reality it's so much higher? Do a lot of people drop out of uni and not get their degree?
    Because the demographics in your area reflect the demographics in the whole country?
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    (Original post by shanktheopps)
    No, I honestly don't see how only 51% of us are going to uni. I don't know anyone out of the many people I know who isn't going to university.


    I know people from other schools and they're all going to university. Do you feel that the 49% statistic is accurate?
    I feel that given people like you make up the 49%, that number is way too high.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    I'm a graduate and have worked in universities for over a decade.
    There's obviously variation between universities and subjects but the vast majority of HE students in the UK finish their course within the expected time.
    How else can you explain the fact that for the first few weeks of the year, the uni is packed, and then during the final few it is very quiet?
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    (Original post by Duncan2012)
    Since 2006 the non-graduate high-skilled employment rate fell 2.9%. For graduates it fell 5%. As more graduates enter the workforce the proportion of graduates in high-skilled jobs falls.

    Your other link adds nothing, there no disputing the fact the number of graduates has increased. And that's my point - there aren't sufficient jobs for them all which is why many graduates end up working in shops and bars etc.

    If you're aware of any data regarding underemployment rather than unemployment I'll happily read it.
    The second link is key - the number of graduates has grown substantially, the number not in highly skilled work has not dropped proportionally.

    Combining the 2 in 2005 there were 35% of young people had degrees, 21% of all young people had a degree and were in a highly skilled job. In 2015 49% of young people had degrees, 27% of all young people had a degree and were in a highly skilled job.

    The proportion of young people with degrees in high skilled employment went up by 6%, the proportion of young people with degrees not in high skilled employment went up by 8%....those are not changes that indicate an over-saturation of the highly skilled job market.
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    (Original post by john2054)
    How else can you explain the fact that for the first few weeks of the year, the uni is packed, and then during the final few it is very quiet?
    Because most universities don't monitor attendance and for most courses attendance at lectures isn't the only way to learn or succeed on the course...add in that a lot of students on flexible degrees will change their module choice away from packed and boring lectures and have made friends with their coursemates and so have someone they can go to to swap lecture notes if they miss something.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Because most universities don't monitor attendance and for most courses attendance at lectures isn't the only way to learn or succeed on the course...add in that a lot of students on flexible degrees will change their module choice away from packed and boring lectures and have made friends with their coursemates and so have someone they can go to to swap lecture notes if they miss something.
    My university did monitor attendance With scan cards or a paper register. And i was under the impression that this was standard practice.

    And granted, some students will choose to work from home.

    But seriously from the five years i studied/read for my undergraduate degree, the number of people who changed course/deferred/quit or otherwise changed from the start to the end was a significant amount. That is all i am saying.

    PS we used to be able to see from the registers, all of the people who's name was on the register, and lots of them never even attended one seminar, or maybe attended one, but then no more. Your university was obviously very different to mine!
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    (Original post by PQ)
    The second link is key - the number of graduates has grown substantially, the number not in highly skilled work has not dropped proportionally.

    Combining the 2 in 2005 there were 35% of young people had degrees, 21% of all young people had a degree and were in a highly skilled job. In 2015 49% of young people had degrees, 27% of all young people had a degree and were in a highly skilled job.

    The proportion of young people with degrees in high skilled employment went up by 6%, the proportion of young people with degrees not in high skilled employment went up by 8%....those are not changes that indicate an over-saturation of the highly skilled job market.
    It looks like you're confusing yourself now. Between 2006-2015, the total number of young graduates has increased (OECD link) while the proportion of young graduates working in high skilled jobs (graph in post 50) has not kept up.

    Using your own figures (I'm not sure where the 21% or 27% numbers come from - the graph in post 50 show the numbers should be 60.8% and 55.8%):

    35% --> 49% = a 40% increase in the number of young graduates
    21% --> 27% = a 28.6% increase in number of young graduates in high skilled jobs.

    Using the figures from post 50 make the case even worse:

    60.8% --> 55.8% = an 8.2% decrease in number of young graduates in high skilled jobs.

    The increase in number of young graduates in high skilled jobs has not keep pace with the increase in number of young graduates. Care to offer any other hypothesis other than a saturated graduate market?
 
 
 
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