Students stage a walkout in protest over consent classes

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Except it's tagged onto the end of a compulsory according to law talk

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    And the fact they are told its voluntary makes them fail to exercise their brain about whether to attend or not?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    WTactualF?!
    If the woman doesn't consent to penetrative sex, of course it's rape, you Neanderthal! When I was at school I had a gf who was into everything except penetrative sex (which she was saving for her wedding night - whether that actually transpired, I have no way of knowing). If I had had penetrative sex with her, against her wishes, it would have been rape. All the other stuff would have nothing to do with it.

    If you were at an all-you-can-eat buffet where you were told that the lobster was an extra that you had to pay for, and you took a lobster without paying for it, would it be theft or would it be ok because the other stuff was free?
    If a girl does all that other stuff dont you think that counts as consent? Consent can be expressed in other ways not just verbal.Unless she says no then it is not unreasonable to assume that she wants to have sex.How is he supposed to tell? Telepathy? Also thats offensive to neanderthals they were supposedly just as intelligent as humans.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It's not about "rape", it is about "consent". There are people who would never dream of physically forcing someone to have sex, but may well take advantage of a drunk friend and not consider it to be "rape".

    People need to realise that the absence of an explicit (and current) "yes", is actually a "no".

    What? That's not how human interaction works. Non-verbal consent can be given by a woman or man through actions. Consider this scenario:

    Guy and girl make out. Guy starts taking off their clothes without explicitly asking her. She does not protest and she carries on making out with him. They end up having sex. By your logic, that must have been rape.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Actually the law states reasonable belief so an explicit yes isnt necessary
    First, I was not talking about the law, but about best practice.

    Secons, the "reasonable" in reasonable belief is a test by the prosecution against a defendant's claim that their belief that the victim had consented was "reasonable". In order for it to be judged reasonable, they must have taken reasonable steps to ensure that consent was genuinely given. The defendant can't simply claim that they "reasonably believed" that consent had been given, they must demonstrate it.
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    If a girl does all that other stuff dont you think that counts as consent? Consent can be expressed in other ways not just verbal.Unless she says no then it is not unreasonable to assume that she wants to have sex.How is he supposed to tell? Telepathy? Also thats offensive to neanderthals they were supposedly just as intelligent as humans.
    But the poster said even if she changes her mind and says so, then it's not rape.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    How about you read the rest of the thread and see which user I was referring to? I don't have time for this.
    Have you read the post you quoted, it contains that very sentence. In fact here is the full post that you quoted again in full with that line in bold

    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    That's not what he said, though. If a girl has taken off her clothes and is engaging in intimate acts of a sexual nature, it's not wrong for the man to assume she's initiating and giving the go-ahead for the next step. If she then says no, or physically refuses him, it would obviously be rape if he continued anyway. But if she doesn't do this, what is the guy to think? Not all consent is verbal. Physically leading a person on at this stage can be a form of consent in itself, for both parties.
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    (Original post by flamingoking)
    Have you read the post you quoted, it contains that very sentence. In fact here is the full post that you quoted again in full with that line in bold
    I'm starting to think she's a troll. No one can be that thick.
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    (Original post by flamingoking)
    Have you read the post you quoted, it contains that very sentence. In fact here is the full post that you quoted again in full with that line in bold
    FFS I wasn't talking about that post. Why does everything need spelling out for you people, even though you would clearly understand what I'm talking about if you read the thread?
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    (Original post by Robby2312)
    If a girl does all that other stuff dont you think that counts as consent?
    No. It just counts as all the other stuff. That's all.

    If you had six trees in your garden and you asked a tree surgeon to cut down five specific ones, do you think it reasonable if he cuts down all six, because asking for five to be cut down means that you actually want all six done?

    Consent can be expressed in other ways not just verbal.Unless she says no then it is not unreasonable to assume that she wants to have sex.How is he supposed to tell? Telepathy?
    Erm, by ensuring that she genuinely consenting, not just assuming. As you say, it doesn't have to be verbal, but it does have to be explicit and unambiguous.

    Also thats offensive to neanderthals they were supposedly just as intelligent as humans.
    They were as intelligent as humans were 40,000 years ago. That's nothing to brag about!
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    (Original post by The Good Doctor)
    What? That's not how human interaction works. Non-verbal consent can be given by a woman or man through actions. Consider this scenario:

    Guy and girl make out. Guy starts taking off their clothes without explicitly asking her. She does not protest and she carries on making out with him. They end up having sex. By your logic, that must have been rape.
    Not at all, but it could have been. A lack of explicit refusal is not consent. Therefore, it is best to ensure that consent has been given. It's what the law says. You can't just assume it, you have to take reasonable steps to determine it.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No. It just counts as all the other stuff. That's all.

    If you had six trees in your garden and you asked a tree surgeon to cut down five specific ones, do you think it reasonable if he cuts down all six, because asking for five to be cut down means that you actually want all six done?

    Erm, by ensuring that she genuinely consenting, not just assuming. As you say, it doesn't have to be verbal, but it does have to be explicit and unambiguous.

    They were as intelligent as humans were 40,000 years ago. That's nothing to brag about!
    This particular character comes to mind:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1o_iY99eeA
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    I'm starting to think she's a troll. No one can be that thick.
    Oh the irony.
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    (Original post by IronicalMan)
    Well if it's okay to do this to men, surely we should start teaching Muslims not to blow things up and blacks not to steal/commit violent crime or sell drugs?
    It's the same thing, with the same argument applicable to all of them....
    A Muslim knows how to not blow things up, just like a man knows how to not rape.
    Feminist *****.
    Why do certain people love to:
    a) Claim victimhood
    b) Make every topic about Muslims, regardless of what it is.

    Consent classes are for everyone, irrespective of gender, race, sexuality, age and so forth. Pretty much everyone has seen a heated argument over what does and doesn’t constitute consent, so obviously it's not as clear to certain people as some are portray it to be.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No. It just counts as all the other stuff. That's all.

    If you had six trees in your garden and you asked a tree surgeon to cut down five specific ones, do you think it reasonable if he cuts down all six, because asking for five to be cut down means that you actually want all six done?

    Erm, by ensuring that she genuinely consenting, not just assuming. As you say, it doesn't have to be verbal, but it does have to be explicit and unambiguous.

    They were as intelligent as humans were 40,000 years ago. That's nothing to brag about!
    Ok obviously he has to ensure she is consenting.But I was saying it doesnt have to be verbal.If she strips naked in front of him and gives him a suggestive look then it is a pretty reasonable belief that she wants to have sex.I think you could argue there that consent was given.I dont think you need to explicitely ask everytime.Sometimes it is just spontaneous.For example if someone kisses you it wouldnt be assault to then kiss them back.That is clear consent given.If they say no then consent is withdrawn but until then you have reasonable belief of consent.And humans haven't got more intelligent btw just more knowledgable.Our intelligence remains largely the same.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Why do certain people love to:
    a) Claim victimhood
    b) Make every topic about Muslims, regardless of what it is.

    Consent classes are for everyone, irrespective of gender, race, sexuality, age and so forth. Pretty much everyone has seen a heated argument over what does and doesn’t constitute consent, so obviously it's not as clear to certain people as some are portray it to be.
    Mainly for men though... to teach them not to rape.
    Obviously you failed to understand the point I was making.
    Men more likely to rape(well legally women can't) = forced consent classes.
    just like certain other groups are more likely to do something, doesn't mean they should be forced to learn how not to do it, when they know already...
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    FFS I wasn't talking about that post. Why does everything need spelling out for you people, even though you would clearly understand what I'm talking about if you read the thread?
    I am sorry but you quoted that post when you made the statement, so it is only natural to assume to are talking about it and it makes perfect sense in the context of the rest of the thread
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    And the fact they are told its voluntary makes them fail to exercise their brain about whether to attend or not?
    What don't you understand about "tagged to the end of a compulsory talk"

    All students living on campus are required by law to attend a fire safety talk, when that ends they are allowed to leave, or stay and be patronised.

    If you didn't get it the second time THEY HAD TO BE IN THAT ROOM can't remember what the fine is for failure to attend the fire safety talk, at least £50 IIRC
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    (Original post by flamingoking)
    I am sorry but you quoted that post when you made the statement, so it is only natural to assume to are talking about it and it makes perfect sense in the context of the rest of the thread
    Me and that poster who I quoted were clearly talking about another poster.
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    (Original post by IronicalMan)
    Mainly for men though... to teach them not to rape.
    Obviously you failed to understand the point I was making.
    Men more likely to rape(well legally women can't) = forced consent classes.
    just like certain other groups are more likely to do something, doesn't mean they should be forced to learn how not to do it, when they know already...
    Consent classes are about sexual assault as well, which women can legally be guilty of. Only decades ago people thought that getting married = consenting to sex for life, so it's not always human instinct to know when someone is or isn't consenting. The issue is not that these classes are being taught, but that they are being taught too late. They are also voluntary, so no one is being forced to be "taught not to rape".
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What don't you understand about "tagged to the end of a compulsory talk"

    All students living on campus are required by law to attend a fire safety talk, when that ends they are allowed to leave, or stay and be patronised.

    If you didn't get it the second time THEY HAD TO BE IN THAT ROOM can't remember what the fine is for failure to attend the fire safety talk, at least £50 IIRC
    Yes and as you make the point yourself when the compilsory talk has ended, then they have a choice as to whether to stay for the talk or not. They could simply have left.

    Do you know the content of the talk?
    Do you think its impossible to talk about things like sexual harassment, what to do if you feel in trouble. who to contact, how to use their place of safety scheme in a non patronising way?
 
 
 
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