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Socrates and Theresa May: a comparison Watch

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    Theresa May hasn't drunk hemlock and died yet.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Did you earn being British? Or rather, you simply won the postcode lottery and was born in Britain as opposed to being born in an impoverished African village.

    I don't understand the concept of being proud about something you have no control over. It's like saying you're proud of having a nose, or for having two little toes.
    I agree and disagree. It seems faintly idiotic to be proud to be British just because.

    On the other hand, I think I'm eminently justified to be proud of the society we have created here in Britain, a society that (compared to the vast majority of societies on earth now, and historically) values fairness, the rule of law, which is not particularly corrupt, which is a fairly nice place to live, where if you are sick or unemployed you will be given a helping hand up.

    I have played my own role and made my own contribution to that; small as my role has been, we are all standing on the shoulders of our forbears and it is all those small contributions together that has created what we have now. So yes, I personally feel proud of what this country has accomplished, and that for the most part even with our flaws we are a democratic, fair, civilised country.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Socrates had a better beard tbh.
    Only on his face.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Being proud of something means you have achieved something. What did you achieve to be British?
    Did you earn being British? Or rather, you simply won the postcode lottery and was born in Britain as opposed to being born in an impoverished African village.

    I don't understand the concept of being proud about something you have no control over. It's like saying you're proud of having a nose, or for having two little toes.
    Being proud of something doesn't mean you have to have achieved something. It could be that you see yourself as just one of a huge group of people who have done so much to change the world and you feel proud and privileged to be a part of the society which has changed the world and still makes a large impact on the world.
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    (Original post by MemeworksStudios)
    You don't understand, I don't hate lawyers in particular, I think it would be pretty lulzy to disestablish civilisation altogether.
    I don't mean to be rude but I already don't take you seriously and have a fairly reasonable basis to believe that any conversation with you will simply lead to trolling and pointless disputation (see bolded in quote)
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I don't mean to be rude but I already don't take you seriously and have a fairly reasonable basis to believe that any conversation with you will simply lead to trolling and pointless disputation (see bolded in quote)
    I don't really care whether you take me seriously or not, but the fact of the matter is, there is no reason for secular Western laws to exist in the place of Shariah law or no laws at all. The only argument you can resort to is a sort of utilitarian argument where our way of doing things creates a more developed society, but that predicated upon the things you value (economy, social development etc) as being objectively good. It's still quite arbitrary.
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    Theresa May has never been immortalised in a Monty Python song.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Theresa May has never been immortalised in a Monty Python song.
    Is she a lumberjack?

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Point in case.
    It's funny how those on the right who claim to be patriots seem to do the most moaning about how everything is awful. You don't love this country do you though? You don't love it's multiculturalism, you don't love its liberal streak, you don't love British institutions like the BBC, you don't like a redistributive economic system that gives the poor a chance.

    You like and dislike things about this country just like anyone else. Yet I don't pretend I love everything about this country like you do.

    I don't love or hate any countries. They just are. I don't hate Britain, not at all. But I don't see why I should take pride in something completely outside my control.

    The idea of being proud of winning the post code lottery is deeply baffling.
    You still don't get it, but of course we knew that already.

    George Orwell put it well when he said that England was like a family with the wrong members in control. The wonderful thing about Brexit (there are so many, let me count the ways!) is that the right members are wresting it back as we watch.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    PUDDLES!
    :bumps:
    JNEILL!

    :jumphug:
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Socrates: "I am not an Athenian or Greek, but a citizen of the world"

    May: "If you are a citizen of the world you are a citizen of nowhere"

    Sigh. :sad:
    Since the Athenian democracy of which he was legally a citizen eventually voted to murder Socrates, I am not sure his life story proves May wrong.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    I agree and disagree. It seems faintly idiotic to be proud to be British just because.

    On the other hand, I think I'm eminently justified to be proud of the society we have created here in Britain, a society that (compared to the vast majority of societies on earth now, and historically) values fairness, the rule of law, which is not particularly corrupt, which is a fairly nice place to live, where if you are sick or unemployed you will be given a helping hand up.

    I have played my own role and made my own contribution to that; small as my role has been, we are all standing on the shoulders of our forbears and it is all those small contributions together that has created what we have now. So yes, I personally feel proud of what this country has accomplished, and that for the most part even with our flaws we are a democratic, fair, civilised country.
    That's all fine. The problem comes when people get all arrogant and feel that it entitles them to treat non-British people with contempt, especially if they happen to be not very white and not very North-West European.

    The bigger picture is that the UK is what's left of what was a global and very oppressive imperial system and that affects a lot of the attitudes of British people now of all classes - particularly it encourages a superior and harsh attitude in the political sphere towards non-British people and also towards British people who are not white. We also remain a class-ridden society with a lot of reaction to that, especially misdirected working class anger.
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    (Original post by MemeworksStudios)
    I don't really care whether you take me seriously or not, but the fact of the matter is, there is no reason for secular Western laws to exist in the place of Shariah law or no laws at all. The only argument you can resort to is a sort of utilitarian argument where our way of doing things creates a more developed society, but that predicated upon the things you value (economy, social development etc) as being objectively good. It's still quite arbitrary.
    The trolling... so mediocre.
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    (Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
    If things carry on like this I think I'd rather take my chances on being a citizen of nowhere over citizen of the UK :afraid:
    Puddles!
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    (Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
    JNEILL!

    :jumphug:
    PUDDLES !!

    **
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    (Original post by *Stefan*)
    The trolling... so mediocre.
    I'm not trolling, ultimately a preference for secular law over religious law is a matter of personal preference, I welcome any argument which countiers this but I fear none exists.
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    (Original post by generallee)
    You still don't get it, but of course we knew that already.

    George Orwell put it well when he said that England was like a family with the wrong members in control. The wonderful thing about Brexit (there are so many, let me count the ways!) is that the right members are wresting it back as we watch.
    Are you proud of British diversity and multiculturalism?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    That's all fine. The problem comes when people get all arrogant and feel that it entitles them to treat non-British people with contempt, especially if they happen to be not very white and not very North-West European.

    The bigger picture is that the UK is what's left of what was a global and very oppressive imperial system and that affects a lot of the attitudes of British people now of all classes - particularly it encourages a superior and harsh attitude in the political sphere towards non-British people and also towards British people who are not white. We also remain a class-ridden society with a lot of reaction to that, especially misdirected working class anger.
    This.

    I have noticed a huge difference between Scottish and English nationalism.

    Scottish nationalism is very inclusive nationalism - it's not about race or ethnicity or even 'culture' but rather centred around a social democratic political belief.

    English nationalism tends to be very exclusionary and largely based on the idea that only white people are really British. It's typically skinheads and football hooligans who in the summer in France made child refugees drink piss for money.*
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    Puddles!

    (Not sure why I'm shouting this, but everyone seems to be doing it.)
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    (Original post by MemeworksStudios)
    I'm not trolling, ultimately a preference for secular law over religious law is a matter of personal preference, I welcome any argument which countiers this but I fear none exists.
    You only need to look around the world for the answer (surely someone of your religion should understand). Nothing sort of a preference.
 
 
 
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