M409 – LGBTQ+ Motion 2016

Announcements Posted on
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I was meaning the people who dislike LGBT people have a choice sorry if I was unclear about that.
    Okay, well it did seem like you were referring to LGBTQ+ people but anyways, lets move on.

    Ok so maybe we should teach in schools every way in which religious texts are wrong to educate people on how these texts are completely wrong to stop them from believing what they believe.
    No we shouldn't teach that. I don't see how this is relevant to the topic of sexuality. Like I aforementioned I would like to see in the near future, sexuality lessons implemented into the sex education curriculum - I see nothing wrong with that and if it reduces hate crimes then all the better.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Yes, but this motion is directly tackling the problem of discrimination towards LBGT people without waiting for decades for a change in education to kick in.
    Do you have numbers on how many guilty verdicts or pleas there was regarding LGBT hate crime? I'm not interested in numbers reported to police as things included in that may not actually be a hate crime as that is for courts to decide.

    Do you have the correct figures not the false and twisted numbers used? I've looked at a few of the claims this motion makes and it seems whoever wrote it hasn't even bothered to read the articles supplied as some of them shows that the figures are completely wrong
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Do you have numbers on how many guilty verdicts or pleas there was regarding LGBT hate crime? I'm not interested in numbers reported to police as things included in that may not actually be a hate crime as that is for courts to decide.

    Do you have the correct figures not the false and twisted numbers used? I've looked at a few of the claims this motion makes and it seems whoever wrote it hasn't even bothered to read the articles supplied as some of them shows that the figures are completely wrong


    These figures are quite disturbing and this problem simply has to be tackled otherwise it will get worse and worse.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrMackyTv)
    Okay, well it did seem like you were referring to LGBTQ+ people but anyways, lets move on.



    No we shouldn't teach that. I don't see how this is relevant to the topic of sexuality. Like I aforementioned I would like to see in the near future, sexuality lessons implemented into the sex education curriculum - I see nothing wrong with that and if it reduces hate crimes then all the better.
    I did read it back and I can understand why you thought I meant that, it was poorly worded.

    Things like god created the world in 7 days in not supported by fact so teaching that the bible is wrong in this respect would be supported by fact.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quamquam123)


    These figures are quite disturbing and this problem simply has to be tackled otherwise it will get worse and worse.
    I have to question some parts of that study, just from that screenshot it raises about what it classes as harassment and as it includes things that may not actually be harassment, people can interpret things differently if someone is on a bus daydreaming and a trans person gets on they may believe they are being stared at when they aren't.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    We seem to be on the same page here, so I trust you disgaree with this part of the motion?

    "The Williams Institute found that people on the LGBTQ+ spectrum can earn up to 32% less in wages than their heterosexual counterparts. This is a staggering statistic and one which must be rectified. People must be paid based on the job, their skills and their work rate, and it is disturbing that some businesses also base salaries on what sexual orientation someone is - the Government needs to ensure this never happens."

    Clearly the reason for this discrepancy is the choices of individual employees, and not some institutionalised system in which gay people are paid less. The motion is being very deceitful here.

    I would go further and suggest that this discrepancy is no bad thing as it is based on individual choices, but that is a debate for another time.
    Oh, I have no idea about whether there's an LGBT+ paygap, I haven't scrutinised the actual motion much and just took the opportunity for an argument.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I did read it back and I can understand why you thought I meant that, it was poorly worded.

    Things like god created the world in 7 days in not supported by fact so teaching that the bible is wrong in this respect would be supported by fact.
    We don't teach that the Vedas, the Guru Granth Sahib, and so on, are wrong and fake. Religious studies should be as objective as possible.

    However, what would be useful, as expressed before by several people in this thread, would be the addition of information for non-heterosexual people in sex-ed.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    We don't teach that the Vedas, the Guru Granth Sahib, and so on, are wrong and fake. Religious studies should be as objective as possible.

    However, what would be useful, as expressed before by several people in this thread, would be the addition of information for non-heterosexual people in sex-ed.
    If a school wants to teach non-heterosexual information in sex Ed that they should be allowed, but only facts and I don't think it should mention whether homosexuality is acceptable or not I think it is but others may not and it is not the role of schools to teach what to think but how to think.

    Back to the topic about hate crimes I don't judge a crime for the motivation I only care about the crime.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    If a school wants to teach non-heterosexual information in sex Ed that they should be allowed, but only facts and I don't think it should mention whether homosexuality is acceptable or not I think it is but others may not and it is not the role of schools to teach what to think but how to think.

    Back to the topic about hate crimes I don't judge a crime for the motivation I only care about the crime.
    Why not? Yes, people can come to their own decisions, but we teach people that stealing is wrong. It won't necessarily make them think it is.

    Unless there is a very good reason for not mentioning that homosexuality is 'acceptable' (which there isn't), why not mention it?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    Why not? Yes, people can come to their own decisions, but we teach people that stealing is wrong. It won't necessarily make them think it is.

    Unless there is a very good reason for not mentioning that homosexuality is 'acceptable' (which there isn't), why not mention it?
    For the same reason we don't teach people religion is wrong, people are allowed to think what they want.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    For the same reason we don't teach people religion is wrong, people are allowed to think what they want.
    So it's okay to condemn racism but not okay to condemn homophobia/transphobia? They are the same thing, they both are a sign of hatred and they both discriminate - why is it any different to racism? Why should we tolerate homophobia/transphobia in our 21st century society?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Due to a mix-up this is actually M409.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Definitely a no from me
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    For the same reason we don't teach people religion is wrong, people are allowed to think what they want.
    We teach people that racism is wrong, and, for example, there's roughly the same amount of LGBT people as black people in the country. Why should we teach people it's okay to discriminate against LGBT people?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    We teach people that racism is wrong, and, for example, there's roughly the same amount of LGBT people as black people in the country. Why should we teach people it's okay to discriminate against LGBT people?
    I'm not saying we should teach people that it's ok, I'm saying we should accept that people can have different opinions and rather than try to force everyone to have one opinion is wrong, where would you like it to end? It's easy to stand up for the popular opinion but you have to be prepared to stand up for the unpopular opinions if you want your own opinions to be protected.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I'm not saying we should teach people that it's ok, I'm saying we should accept that people can have different opinions and rather than try to force everyone to have one opinion is wrong, where would you like it to end? It's easy to stand up for the popular opinion but you have to be prepared to stand up for the unpopular opinions if you want your own opinions to be protected.
    I'd like it to go up to the point where it's mentioned in schools, the same way racism is actively pointed out as a Bad Thing. We don't let teachers tell students that racism is to be encouraged. When that happens they're generally get let go, not applauded for having 'different opinions'.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Aye
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    This motion is in cessation.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Division! Clear the lobbies!
 
 
 
Updated: October 18, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Today on TSR
Poll
How are you feeling about doing A-levels?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.