Disney tried to cast a white guy as the hero of live-action Mulan movie

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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    um, no. you're falsely conflating "chinese" (the nationality) with "chinese" (the race). hermione was english in the harry potter books, so her race would naturally be anglo-saxon/caucasian. but if you're saying that a white person can't play a nationality-wise chinese character, then by that same reasoning, hermione can't be played by a black person if race and nationality MUST be equivalent
    So being English, naturally means you are anglo-saxon or caucasian... ok then
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    1. No. There's a substantial amount of academic literature on this, if you took your head out of your own arse long enough to educate yourself. Head on Google Scholar, who knows you might learn something new, I know it mustn't happen very often for you, but worth a shot.

    2. If you bothered to read the OP or article properly, you would have saved yourself some embarrassment by understanding that it's not a case of finding the perfect white guy for the role which they just couldn't refuse. They are only in the story writing stages, and set the entire plot based on a white European soldier. If you're going to get anywhere on this damn site, learn to ****ing read the opening posts.
    oh right, so litereally there's nothing wrong with this then because this isn't chinese, but european, so there's no aesthetic inaccuracy regarding the characters. this is a EUROPEAN (~white) adaptation. so why do we need an asian actor here? are you telling me that racial adaptations are bad? what about gender adaptations? I mean, mulan was created by an american film studio (disney) - was this some kind of cultural appropriation from day 1?

    You did the exact same thing in the thread regarding 'accidental penetration' and rape. Why are you so idiotic as to not bother reading a post and then subsequently waste time making completely invalid points?
    to be honest I didn't give a flying **** about that - I just assumed everybody was saying that it MUST have been rape because a man was being accused, naturally. but whatever - it's not as if I was wrong anyway

    3. You lack the basic reasoning ability that presumably someone your age should have developed a long time ago. If you are nearing the age where you are thinking about higher education, I'd be very worried if I were you.
    yeah, look, why don't you maybe chill out a bit - I'm open to fair criticism but you're just looking really immature and childish now by hurling this material at me - I doubt hardly anybody read the OP's article and judged it based on the title (which is USUALLY adequate to get the idea at least - ****ing hell) but I'm somebody who doesn't agree with you, so naturally, only *I* am retarded. yeah. okay. very fair.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    right, so there "aren't enough" of them, so you're going to feed more minorities into cinema for...what goal exactly? a cosmetic, superficial, tokenistic justification? like that's going to change anything or fool anybody? again, you're treating these people as props, not individuals. it also doesn't actually refelct whether the actors have skill or not, it literally just suggests that they were picked due to their race, which is regressive and if anything is just going to damn these different groups with a reputation of "you only got here because of special treatment" - what a perfect ingredient to a society of racial tolerance

    Why argue about this? Because all you need to do is look into popular culture to see that minorities are generally cast into roles that fit their stereotypes. If all the people who are represented in entertainment white, is that liberal equality? All I ask is that minorities get an equal consideration for acting roles other than as token minorities or the sidekick that dies first in action movies especially when the roles are pertaining to them. Yes each person is different and they aren't symbols. Yes they are more than just their race. But does Hollywood see it that way? Generally, I don't think so. Why does racism still exist? Because race is still an issue here in 2016..... This is why this is an argument and why the whitewashing of a traditional Chinese story is such an issue.
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    (Original post by wolfmoon88)
    So being English, naturally means you are anglo-saxon or caucasian... ok then
    :lol: oh my god - you went there. your argument now is "english people aren't, by a *vast* majority, ethnically white" - because if they *were*, you wouldn't have said this for a story based in ENGLAND. if hermione wasn't white, surely the author would have *implied* this when she implied it for literally every other BME character?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    :lol: oh my god - you went there. your argument now is "english people aren't, by a *vast* majority, ethnically white" - because if they *were*, you wouldn't have said this for a story based in ENGLAND. if hermione wasn't white, surely the author would have *implied* this when she implied it for literally every other BME character?
    Are going to reply to this or what?:

    Firstly: A white guy isn't being cast as a Chinese soldier- "Instead, the proposed remake of the studio's hit animation movie would feature a white male European sailor who saved the young heroine and conquered her heart" This undercuts the entire point of the movie; condenscending, sexist, and racist all in one!

    Secondly: Mulan is a Chinese folk hero, Hermione is just a recent literary invention. It's insulting to Chinese history, culture, and achievements

    Thirdly: The ethinicity of Hermione has no bearing on the story, whereas it does with Mulan

    Fourthly: White explorers weren't even kicking about in China around the time, it's dire historical inaccuracy, whereas Harry Potter is entirely fictional and based on nothing

    Fithly: Plus this whole thing is a part of a massive harmful trope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_...rative_in_film
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    (Original post by wolfmoon88)
    Why argue about this? Because all you need to do is look into popular culture to see that minorities are generally cast into roles that fit their stereotypes. If all the people who are represented in entertainment white, is that liberal equality? All I ask is that minorities get an equal consideration for acting roles other than as token minorities or the sidekick that dies first in action movies especially when the roles are pertaining to them.
    this is the thing - you're representing race as individually-significant. but here I was in 2016 thinking that race literally didn't matter anymore. what about one's race affects their personality, for instance? if it only represents their appearance, then you're saying that all people of different races are, concerning their rights in representation in the film industry, is a race. because if that wasn't true, then why would you need to "treat them with equal consideration"? should we treat ginger people "with equal consideration" too? what about people with green eyes? and hairy chests? I could go on and on about arbitrary biological characteristics being underrrepresented or not given enough arbitrary attention to satisfy somebody's regressive racial-garden.

    Yes each person is different and they aren't symbols. Yes they are more than just their race. But does Hollywood see it that way? Generally, I don't think so. Why does racism still exist? Because race is still an issue here in 2016..... This is why this is an argument and why the whitewashing of a traditional Chinese story is such an issue.
    did you even realise that black actors, compared to how many black people there are in the USA, are actually *over* represented? so the only problem here, I suspect, is that they don't win enough oscars...if there are more actors of one group, does that necessarily mean that they're better? :|
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    (Original post by James.Carnell)
    As a white man you don't understand.
    oh here we go. full SJW-mode and white privilege all around. racism against whites isn't racism and so on! go ahead: tell me that I'm racist and that I don't understand. tell me how my race makes me inferior in this context. even with all the information out there at my disposal, tell me just how I will never understand these things because of the tone of my skin. I mean, with this logic, I could tell a black person "you will never understand white society and all its ways, because you're not white", in the same way you're saying "you'll never understand racism", because you're narrowing this down to skin colours.

    People are very influenced by the fact that there are just a multitude of white heroes in the media being white saviours. It brainwashes them and it devalues minority men. Same case with the women.
    but we live in a predominantly white society - the target audience will always be "white people" here - in india, there are indian actors predominantly represented. in central america and south america, it's latinas/latinos. in the west, it's generally white people. if you're saying that "white countries" are racist for this, you will literally be accusing all these other places as racist as well. the only difference is that "white society" has a larger global influence because we happen to be better at making successful movies. it's not racism. it's a coincidence that you're conflating as deliberate racism.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    um, no. you're falsely conflating "chinese" (the nationality) with "chinese" (the race). hermione was english in the harry potter books, so her race would naturally be anglo-saxon/caucasian. but if you're saying that a white person can't play a nationality-wise chinese character, then by that same reasoning, hermione can't be played by a black person if race and nationality MUST be equivalent
    um, no. You can be English and any colour. And as I said, simply changing her colour wouldn't affect the story. Even the books author has said she really doesn't care. None of the characters colours have any importance to the story. It's only the fact that they're england raised.

    Mulan is specifically meant to be Chinese. Both race and nationality. Both are important to the story. You're not going to have a chinese parent drafted into the chinese military if you're white. Especially in the time that mulan was set. Once again, it genuinely isn't hard to grasp at all.

    If you're still not getting it after this many people trying to break it down for you then maybe just give up.
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    Everyone wants equality, well there ya go!
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    Looks like Sleepysnooze can't back up his terrible opinion that there was nothing wrong with this, since he's still not replying to my responses to him... :holmes:
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    (Original post by lucabrasi98)
    um, no. You can be English and any colour. And as I said, simply changing her colour wouldn't affect the story. Even the books author has said she really doesn't care. None of the characters colours have any importance to the story. It's only the fact that they're england raised.
    you cannot tell me with a straight face that hermione in harry potter was meant to be non-white when J.K. Rowling never even slightly suggested that she might have been as such...she was pretty descriptive of these characters as well - you'd have thought that *at some stage* hermione would have been described as having at the very least darker skin than harry and ron?!

    Mulan is specifically meant to be Chinese. Both race and nationality.
    "not necessarily", as you say. you could be ethnically european but nationally chinese. or: they could have been mixed.

    Both are important to the story. You're not going to have a chinese parent drafted into the chinese military if you're white. Especially in the time that mulan was set. Once again, it genuinely isn't hard to grasp at all.
    maybe the military made an exception. can you prove that they didn't? see, I'm being just as petty as you were - how fun.

    If you're still not getting it after this many people trying to break it down for you then maybe just give up.
    nah? I'll keep giving you offerings of logic and reason with some faith that maybe you'll see the sense in what I say
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    oh here we go. full SJW-mode and white privilege all around. racism against whites isn't racism and so on! go ahead: tell me that I'm racist and that I don't understand. tell me how my race makes me inferior in this context. even with all the information out there at my disposal, tell me just how I will never understand these things because of the tone of my skin. I mean, with this logic, I could tell a black person "you will never understand white society and all its ways, because you're not white", in the same way you're saying "you'll never understand racism", because you're narrowing this down to skin colours.



    but we live in a predominantly white society - the target audience will always be "white people" here - in india, there are indian actors predominantly represented. in central america and south america, it's latinas/latinos. in the west, it's generally white people. if you're saying that "white countries" are racist for this, you will literally be accusing all these other places as racist as well. the only difference is that "white society" has a larger global influence because we happen to be better at making successful movies. it's not racism. it's a coincidence that you're conflating as deliberate racism.

    It's a deliberate attempt to export white supremacist views worldwide. The places you mention have execs that don't care as they just want to make a quick buck.

    You will not understand it because the whole western system is geared towards white (middle and upper class) men at the expense of everyone else.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You don't see anything wrong with casting a white man as a Chinese character? Really?
    Do you see anything wrong with casting a Chinese, black or Asian actor as a white character? It happens, and it's regarded as social progress.

    I don't particularly care. I certainly don't see anything wrong with it. Sure, it'd be cool to have a Chinese Mulan actor. But if the best person for the job is the white actor (or the cheapest, or the most local...), then I don't care. I've watched plays where a black person has a white child and you barely notice if the acting is good enough...

    If you're casting a historical documentary then it's probably better to have it as life-like as possible - but for a Disney film it's barely relevant...
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    (Original post by 1010marina)
    Do you see anything wrong with casting a Chinese, black or Asian actor as a white character? It happens, and it's regarded as social progress.

    I don't particularly care. I certainly don't see anything wrong with it. Sure, it'd be cool to have a Chinese Mulan actor. But if the best person for the job is the white actor (or the cheapest, or the most local...), then I don't care. I've watched plays where a black person has a white child and you barely notice if the acting is good enough...

    If you're casting a historical documentary then it's probably better to have it as life-like as possible - but for a Disney film it's barely relevant...
    ffs READ

    Firstly: A white guy isn't being cast as a Chinese soldier- "Instead, the proposed remake of the studio's hit animation movie would feature a white male European sailor who saved the young heroine and conquered her heart" This undercuts the entire point of the movie; condenscending, sexist, and racist all in one!

    Secondly: Mulan is a Chinese folk hero, Hermione is just a recent literary invention. It's insulting to Chinese history, culture, and achievements

    Thirdly: The ethinicity of Hermione has no bearing on the story, whereas it does with Mulan

    Fourthly: White explorers weren't even kicking about in China around the time, it's dire historical inaccuracy, whereas Harry Potter is entirely fictional and based on nothing

    Fithly: Plus this whole thing is a part of a massive harmful trope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_...rative_in_film
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    (Original post by James.Carnell)
    It's a deliberate attempt to export white supremacist views worldwide. The places you mention have execs that don't care as they just want to make a quick buck.
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    I like to keep things authentic, if the original plot was a Asian character keep them Asian, that being said I think people are over sensitive these days about ethnicity.

    People didn't care much when Scarlett Johansson was cast in Ghost In The Shell saying it wasn't implied she was Asian and the people saying its disrepectful were basically told they were over sensitive.

    So seems a double standard there.

    I find it worse when they cast say a Asian American for a role because I see them as purely American with Asian features pretty much every time.

    The fine line is even if it was intended as in this to be a Asian character, if a white person was far better for the role then don't choose the inferior actor just because they are ethnic.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    you cannot tell me with a straight face that hermione in harry potter was meant to be non-white when J.K. Rowling never even slightly suggested that she might have been as such...she was pretty discriptive of these characters as well - you'd have thought that *at some stage* hermione would have been described as having at the very least darker skin than harry and ron?!



    "not necessarily", as you say. you could be ethnically european but nationally chinese. or: they could have been mixed.



    maybe the military made an exception. can you prove that they didn't? see, I'm being just as petty as you were - how fun.



    nah? I'll keep giving you offerings of logic and reason with some faith that maybe you'll see the sense in what I say
    *sigh*

    No. I'm not telling you she's meant to be non white. Either you've resorted to putting words in my mouth or you haven't actually been reading properly. I'm saying she's not meant to be anything but english. And you can be english and any colour. Her character is english. So the colour of that persons character alone doesn't matter. What don't you get about any that? Rowling said she doesn't care. IIRC she's white on some harry potter book covers though. But as we've seen, she has no problem with her being portrayed as someone of another colour.

    The line would be drawn if she was portrayed in a film as american. Or with a jamaican accent. At that point you're changing aspects actually important to the story. If the person who made the characters doesn't care then it baffles me as to why someone on TSR would get as worked up as you have.

    The rest of what you said only tells me you don't know enough about Mulan. You're now going off about her being a mixed Chinese or something despite it being stated that both her and her dad are chinese. Both in nationality and colour. Hence why we can't only change the colour of mulan and still have it not changing the story (like in hermione case). Not sure why you started a debate about something you don't fully know about.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    I like to keep things authentic, if the original plot was a Asian character keep them Asian, that being said I think people are over sensitive these days about ethnicity.

    People didn't care much when Scarlett Johansson was cast in Ghost In The Shell saying it wasn't implied she was Asian and the people saying its disrepectful were basically told they were over sensitive.

    So seems a double standard there.

    I find it worse when they cast say a Asian American for a role because I see them as purely American with Asian features pretty much every time.

    The fine line is even if it was intended as in this to be a Asian character, if a white person was far better for the role then don't choose the inferior actor just because they are ethnic.
    Has anyone even bothered to read even just a bit of the article?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    "not necessarily", as you say. you could be ethnically european but nationally chinese. or: they could have been mixed.
    maybe the military made an exception. can you prove that they didn't? see, I'm being just as petty as you were - how fun.
    nah? I'll keep giving you offerings of logic and reason with some faith that maybe you'll see the sense in what I say
    Feel like I need to elaborate on how incredibly silly this is. First of all you're genuinely wrong. We already know what their races are supposed to be. Not sure why you've gone off about theoretical exceptions and being european.

    But even if we didn't already know Mulan and her Dad are supposed to be Chinese in race and nationality, put 2 and 2 together. This isn't a character taken from an authors imagination like with the harry potter universe. The movie is directly based on the Chinese legend Hua Mulan. Who is Chinese in race. It's not for you to decide what colour they are. As viewers, we're told what race they need to be for the story to make sense.

    No ethnically european women with chinese nationality were there in 420AD to be drafted into chinese military. It's bad enough that you didn't know what you were talking about prior to replying to people. But you've been acting cocky too. White Mulan is the equivalent of an Indian woman playing the Queen victoria I in a mainstream movie.
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    (Original post by pairofjeans)
    Feel like I need to elaborate on how incredibly silly this is. First of all you're genuinely wrong. We already know what their races are supposed to be. Not sure why you've gone off about theoretical exceptions and being european.
    just like how we *know* that hermione wasn't black

    But even if we didn't already know Mulan and her Dad are supposed to be Chinese in race and nationality, put 2 and 2 together.
    is that really *this* important to the story? if hermione's race wasn't, at least...

    This isn't a character taken from an authors imagination like with the harry potter universe. The movie is directly based on the Chinese legend Hua Mulan. Who is Chinese in race. It's not for you to decide what colour they are. As viewers, we're told what race they need to be for the story to make sense.
    how does the story not make sense if they're not racially chinese?

    No ethnically european women with chinese nationality were there in 420AD to be drafted into chinese military.
    not only is that entirely possible, but can you prove that it didn't happen?

    It's bad enough that you didn't know what you were talking about prior to replying to people. But you've been acting cocky too. White Mulan is the equivalent of an Indian woman playing the Queen victoria I in a mainstream movie. Victoria needs to be a certain colour for things to make sense.
    the concept of an indian woman playing victoria is probably a good thing to you though, right?
 
 
 
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