Sufi Challenges Shia

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    (Original post by honey55497)
    not only twelvers but all shia are different from sunnis and most people i think even me dnt regard shia as muslims
    Ex Muslim chiming in here ..

    Isn't it for allah to decide who is muslim and who isn't (i don't believe in allah but from a muslim point of view shouldnt you wait for allah to judge?) Do you know better than allah?

    Secondly don't you think you should be more thoughtful of the Shia muslims who use this site? Making takfeer of people who claim to be muslim is not cool and will only lead to more feelings of hatred (you can make takfeer of me tho )

    I'm sure in Bukhari it says if someone calls another muslim kaafir it will apply to one of the two .. so be careful what you wish for

    Kaafir and proud
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    I must have misread what you wrote,

    The Modern Day Baraylawis have deviated from the teachings of Ahmad Rida Khan, if you read his works he doesn't allow them to do the things that they do at the Shrines of Saints & there are hardly any true Sufis left in the Indian subcontinent only those wearing the garments of the Sufis but they are not of them
    Have you read parts of Hadaiqe Bakhshish, al-Amn wal-Ala or Risalah fataawa karamaat-e-Ghausiya? If you want to discuss this further, I would not mind mentioning some brief statements on a separate thread.

    (Original post by honey55497)
    you can get deobandi sufis who dont dance do music they just purely focus on allah and dhikr they dont do wird things
    The majority (at least) of deobandis don't do that stuff.

    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    If you read the works of the Deobandis a lot of their Sufic beliefs are exactly the same as Baraylawis and the teacher of the Deobandi Elders Imdadullah Muhajir Makki had the exact same beliefs as Ahmad Rida Khan & his students split into two groups those who held the same beliefs as him and Ahmad Rida Khan and the other group that had certain Salafi beliefs such as Ashraf Ali Thanwi
    It's easy to get mixed up. Of course, they did have some similar beliefs/practices. After all, the 2 groups were geographically intertwined, followed (at least in theory) the same school of fiqh, and started off with similar 'aqaa'id (doctrine). To simplify the situation as you have done above, however, is only conducive to confusion and misunderstanding. There are fundamental differencecs between barelwi doctrine and that of most other Muslim groups. This is an objective fact.
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Ex Muslim chiming in here ..

    Isn't it for allah to decide who is muslim and who isn't (i don't believe in allah but from a muslim point of view shouldnt you wait for allah to judge?) Do you know better than allah?

    Secondly don't you think you should be more thoughtful of the Shia muslims who use this site? Making takfeer of people who claim to be muslim is not cool and will only lead to more feelings of hatred (you can make takfeer of me tho )

    I'm sure in Bukhari it says if someone calls another muslim kaafir it will apply to one of the two .. so be careful what you wish for

    Kaafir and proud
    firstly what made u ana thiest or whateer ands econdly this aint takfeer infact theres soethings soo bait we all knowwwww that if u dont belive there is no god but allah and the prophet muhammed is the last messenger and there are certain things in hadeeth as well and quran which blaitantly proves if u dont do tht ur not a muslim
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    no one said u cant visit shrines u can go there and pray for them not to them also mawlid it dosent mention anywere in the quran or hadeeth to celebrate the sahabas or prophet did not do it also majority people dont celebrate it the sect which does is the sufi and barelvi but some part of sufis also deobandis salafis wahabis majorit of the people around the world do not celbrate the mawlid i was a barelvi sufi b4 but deobandis changed me cuz i looked at the truth deobandis base their sgtuff according to quran and hadeeth if there is something which is noit in quran or hadeeth they look to the pious ulema ra
    I don't know where your getting your information about Mawlid Celebrations from

    Mawlid is celebrated in 47 Countries

    In Africa Mawlid is celebrated in: Algeria, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Comoros, Cā te d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gambia, Guinea, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Tunisia, Togo (in Africa, a total of 25 Countries out of 55 where the masses celebrate the Mawlid)

    In the Middle East the Mawlid is celebrated in: Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Egypt, Lebanon, Oman, Palestinian National Authority, Syria, United Arab Emirates / UAE, Yemen (12 out of 14 except Qatar, Saudi Arabia (A lot of Sunnis Celebrate the Mawlid in their homes)

    Asia: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan

    Other places: Fiji, Guyana

    Some of the countries where the masses celebrate the Mawlid aren't even Muslim dominated such as India, Sri-Lanka, Fiji, China, Guyana, Tanzania, Mali etc

    There are other places like Canada, USA, Australia, England, France where the Muslim masses celebrate the Mawlid
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    Have you read parts of Hadaiqe Bakhshish, al-Amn wal-Ala or Risalah fataawa karamaat-e-Ghausiya? If you want to discuss this further, I would not mind mentioning some brief statements on a separate thread.



    The majority (at least) of deobandis don't do that stuff.



    It's easy to get mixed up. Of course, they did have some similar beliefs/practices. After all, the 2 groups were geographically intertwined, followed (at least in theory) the same school of fiqh, and started off with similar 'aqaa'id (doctrine). To simplify the situation as you have done above, however, is only conducive to confusion and misunderstanding. There are fundamental differencecs between barelwi doctrine and that of most other Muslim groups. This is an objective fact.
    are u saying that some deobandis do that because thats not true allll dobandis dont do stuff lyk singing dancing and all that
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    firstly what made u ana thiest or whateer ands econdly this aint takfeer infact theres soethings soo bait we all knowwwww that if u dont belive there is no god but allah and the prophet muhammed is the last messenger and there are certain things in hadeeth as well and quran which blaitantly proves if u dont do tht ur not a muslim
    Do they read the kalimah or not?

    I made a thread of why I left check it out, don't wanna derail this thread.
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    Ex Muslim chiming in here ..

    Isn't it for allah to decide who is muslim and who isn't (i don't believe in allah but from a muslim point of view shouldnt you wait for allah to judge?) Do you know better than allah?

    Secondly don't you think you should be more thoughtful of the Shia muslims who use this site? Making takfeer of people who claim to be muslim is not cool and will only lead to more feelings of hatred (you can make takfeer of me tho )

    I'm sure in Bukhari it says if someone calls another muslim kaafir it will apply to one of the two .. so be careful what you wish for

    Kaafir and proud
    There are subjective statements and then there are objective statements. Some things undisputedly take one out of Islam.
    Yes, the general principle is that nobody should call anyone else (specifically and directly) a disbeliever - unless there is absolutely no doubt that the person is disbelieving. Rather, what is said is that certain acts take one into disbelief, and this is deduced from the evidences and the reasoning is presented.
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    firstly what made u ana thiest or whateer ands econdly this aint takfeer infact theres soethings soo bait we all knowwwww that if u dont belive there is no god but allah and the prophet muhammed is the last messenger and there are certain things in hadeeth as well and quran which blaitantly proves if u dont do tht ur not a muslim
    Lol, I believe there is no God but Allah and that Prophet Muhammed (saw) is the last messenger.. I'm a Shia?

    I don't understand why you think I'm not a Muslim, aside from me believing in the twelve Imams.

    Everything you've stated in this post makes me a Muslim lol

    Edit; I'm not trying to cause an argument, sorry if it comes across like that.
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    anzania, Tunisia, Togo (in Africa, a total of 25 Countries out of 55 where the masses celebrate the Mawlid)

    In the Middle East the Mawlid is celebrated in: Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestinian National Authority, Syria, United Arab Emirates / UAE, Yemen (11 out of 14 except Israel, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (A lot of Sunnis Celebrate the Mawlid in their homes)

    Asia: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan

    Other places: Fiji, Guyana

    Some of the countries where the masses celebrate the Mawlid aren't even Muslim dominated such as India, Sri-Lanka, Fiji, China, Guyana, Tanzania, Mali etc

    There are other places like Canada, USA, Australia, England, France where the Muslim masses celebrate the Mawlid[/QUOTE]

    you are just naming alot of clountires in all them countries only few muslims celebrate it thats lyk me naming u all countires and saying majority are muslims but in reality there are more christians in the world same way u mentioned alot of countries but in them countries only few muslims celebrate it and yeah IF U SAY ALL THESE COUNTIRES DO are u saying that MAJORITY ARE RIGHT since it dosent work like that thats also lyk saying majorit are christians in the world but obviously we will say theyre religion is not right
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    are u saying that some deobandis do that because thats not true allll dobandis dont do stuff lyk singing dancing and all that
    I'm saying that the general case is that deobandis don't do that. But, of course, ascribing to the deobandi group does not mean that a person will not do such things - that depends on the individual.
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    (Original post by IRoranth)
    Lol, I believe there is no God but Allah and that Prophet Muhammed (saw) is the last messenger.. I'm a Shia?

    I don't understand why you think I'm not a Muslim, aside from me believing in the twelve Imams.

    Everything you've stated in this post makes me a Muslim lol

    Edit; I'm not trying to cause an argument, sorry if it comes across like that.
    no its completely fine dont worry i can take criticisms
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    I'm saying that the general case is that deobandis don't do that. But, of course, ascribing to the deobandi group does not mean that a person will not do such things - that depends on the individual.
    yes u can say the individulal does it not based on the belief tho so the deobandis as a sect dont do it but the individual as a person just because they wan do it do it
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    (Original post by ash92:))
    There are subjective statements and then there are objective statements. Some things undisputedly take one out of Islam.
    Yes, the general principle is that nobody should call anyone else (specifically and directly) a disbeliever - unless there is absolutely no doubt that the person is disbelieving. Rather, what is said is that certain acts take one into disbelief, and this is deduced from the evidences and the reasoning is presented.
    So you think it's ok to generalize and make takfeer of all Shia?
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    anzania, Tunisia, Togo (in Africa, a total of 25 Countries out of 55 where the masses celebrate the Mawlid)

    In the Middle East the Mawlid is celebrated in: Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestinian National Authority, Syria, United Arab Emirates / UAE, Yemen (11 out of 14 except Israel, Qatar, Saudi Arabia (A lot of Sunnis Celebrate the Mawlid in their homes)

    Asia: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Brunei, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Uzbekistan

    Other places: Fiji, Guyana

    Some of the countries where the masses celebrate the Mawlid aren't even Muslim dominated such as India, Sri-Lanka, Fiji, China, Guyana, Tanzania, Mali etc

    There are other places like Canada, USA, Australia, England, France where the Muslim masses celebrate the Mawlid


    Over a Million Muslims celebrated the Mawlid in Senegal this year ✋
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    no its completely fine dont worry i can take criticisms
    So do you believe I'm a Muslim or not? Lol.
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    (Original post by ApplyYourself)
    So you think it's ok to generalize and make takfeer of all Shia?
    Nope. Nor have I ever done this. However, if a group does something that opposes Islam, then that action is to be condemned as being contradictory to Islam.
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    (Original post by MuhammadDarcy)
    Over a Million Muslims celebrated the Mawlid in Senegal this year ✋
    and there arew way more than millions who dont
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    EX muslim chiming in here ,
    you really cannot take the word of any Algerian , we haven't even been muslim for a long time , historically speaking when islam got to us we only converted from christianity because we were told become a muslim or die . Most of Algerians and north africans are berber not arab and we really dont uphold the muslim way of life.Not only have we been influenced by other religions but as a consequence of France being in our country for over a century , our islam has been distorted . We literally are not proper muslims, with the exception of the arabs who live in our country .
    also , you really waste a lot of time arguing about religion and comparing suni to shia to blah blah blah BUT if you put this effort in improving your country and your own morals the world will be a better place?!
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    (Original post by honey55497)
    and there arew way more than millions who dont
    Only Salafis who don't make up the Majority of the Ummah
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    (Original post by sandybeach1996)
    EX muslim chiming in here ,
    you really cannot take the word of any Algerian , we haven't even been muslim for a long time , historically speaking when islam got to us we only converted from christianity because we were told become a muslim or die . Most of Algerians and north africans are berber not arab and we really dont uphold the muslim way of life.Not only have we been influenced by other religions but as a consequence of France being in our country for over a century , our islam has been distorted . We literally are not proper muslims, with the exception of the arabs who live in our country .
    also , you really waste a lot of time arguing about religion and comparing suni to shia to blah blah blah BUT if you put this effort in improving your country and your own morals the world will be a better place?!
    Shias are Muslims
    Sufis are Muslims
    Salafis are Muslims

    If Muslims united they would have advanced long ago
 
 
 
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