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Are some feminists trying to make men guilty until proven innocent in rape trials? watch

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    (Original post by unprinted)
    In what sense is it not? What specific change would you like?
    I'd like a statutory definition of consent, I'm not sure what it should be but it's not my job to draft legislation.


    (Original post by unprinted)
    Why's that a problem? My partner knows that they can do various things to me when I'm asleep - it will wake me up in the nicest way.
    Well it would make your partner a criminal, a sleeping person cannot consent. The fact that you can actually argue that you reasonably believed someone was consenting when they're asleep is ridiculous.

    (Original post by unprinted)
    Not if you are proved to know they're incapacitated. If you know that, what does it matter if you didn't actually give them it? It's also clearly there to stop rapists going 'Well, yes, I knew someone had given them something, but you can't prove it was me.'
    You don't have to know they've been involuntarily intoxicated, s.75 makes no mention of knowledge of the involuntary intoxication. Meaning someone could spike a girls drink, in theory with alcohol, and from then on sleeping with them would make you liable for rape even if you had no idea and they weren't in fact incapacitated.

    (Original post by unprinted)
    It's rarely used - apart from the classic 1920s(? it's around then, but I'm away from my library) music teacher, the only big 'nature of the act' prosecution I can think of was the recent 'I'm a boy, honest' one that was recently at the Court of Appeal. Certainly in the latter case, the complainant gave such evidence,
    It is rarely used, it seems now people are trying to use it instances of HIV but it's necessary to prevent cases like Tabassum which was fairly recent.

    (Original post by unprinted)
    Given the nature
    I don't see the relevance of this? There's no need for the victim's belief to be reasonable meaning if someone told a person they've never met that they are in fact their husband and they slept together that is automatically rape. If someone told another person that they wanted to put their penis in their mouth to make them puke magic rainbows that's rape. The fact that you could go to jail for either of those things is laughable.


    (Original post by unprinted)
    I missed that it was you. In terms of the complainant, it is of course.

    In terms of the accused, sexual penetration has always been seen as a particularly abhorrent crime. Penetrating someone with something other than a penis is 'assault by penetration', with the same maximum penalty, and women can be guilty of that.
    If a woman forces a man into non-consensual penial penetration she's guilty of sexual assault, vice versa it's rape. That needs to be changed.

    (Original post by unprinted)
    Without going back to the situation where any belief in consent, no matter how unreasonable, was a defence, I can't see how else it could be done effectively.
    Neither do I really but like I say, I'm not a statutory draftsman. The fact is it's inconsistent and needs to fixed
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    Underscore says

    " I'd like a statutory definition of consent, I'm not sure what it should be but it's not my job to draft legislation.


    No, I'm not at all surprised that you are dodging that one.
    This the one thing that everbody avoids pinning down because it is all but impossible, given the human condition and how men and women interact when in a relationship, even a one night stand.
    The hardest thing to get around is that the majority, no the vast majority of women and men, and we are talking hundreds of thousands every night of the week, are more than happy to be well past the point of say the legal drive limit or more on alcohol and still say theyve given consent.
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    Underscore says

    " I'd like a statutory definition of consent, I'm not sure what it should be but it's not my job to draft legislation.


    No, I'm not at all surprised that you are dodging that one.
    This the one thing that everbody avoids pinning down because it is all but impossible, given the human condition and how men and women interact when in a relationship, even a one night stand.
    The hardest thing to get around is that the majority, no the vast majority of women and men, and we are talking hundreds of thousands every night of the week, are more than happy to be well past the point of say the legal drive limit or more on alcohol and still say theyve given consent.
    If a new kind of rocket blows up on launch I can see there's something wrong with but I'd have no idea how to fix the problem. The same principle applies here. I can see a problem exists but I don't have the solution, it's the job of other people to solve the problem.


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    It's not rocket science, give it a go.
    Nobody will hold you to it.
    For example what is your own policy?
    Is it if your partner has had even one drink they can't give meaningful consent so you won't proceed?
    Is it two drinks in a sort of legal driving level sort of thing?
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Its scary, a girl could literally say YOU RAPED ME and it would probably Ruin your life. or at least for a long time. Especially if It got to the news even if you did not rape them.
    lies always spread faster (and further) than the truth
    a lot of people just read headlines and move on, don't follow the story
    those people will forever believe someone was guilty even if they were proven innocent
    bare sad
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    It's not rocket science, give it a go.
    Nobody will hold you to it.
    For example what is your own policy?
    Is it if your partner has had even one drink they can't give meaningful consent so you won't proceed?
    Is it two drinks in a sort of legal driving level sort of thing?
    It's not rocket science but it seems to be about as complicated. I don't know what the standard should be on capacity but it's not my job to decide, as I've said multiple times. You don't need to have a better alternative to be able to see something doesn't work


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    (Original post by z33)
    lies always spread faster (and further) than the truth
    a lot of people just read headlines and move on, don't follow the story
    those people will forever believe someone was guilty even if they were proven innocent
    bare sad
    I know its just if you were accused of rape and many people knew

    -You might not be able to get a job easily or at all.
    -Many people will dislike you and distrust you.
    -Getting a girlfriend will be harder,
    -Many other horrible results

    Even if you are found not guilty
 
 
 
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