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Did you intentionally choose RG unis? watch

  • View Poll Results: How many RG universities did you apply to?
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    It depends what you mean by prestigious I mean their is Prestigious for the UK in which case Yes Durham and Warwick are definitely prestigious. For UK top 5 is creme le crem and top ten is Elite

    Top 20 is kind of okay you can live with that but will always feel a sadness within.

    However their is also internationally and if you want something that stands out globally the rankings get a bit skewed, for example Bath and Loughborough may rank high in the UK but internationally they rank below universities they top on the UK leagues. I want to get something that has prestige internationally as well as in The UK.

    I basically added the rankings from the global best for maths and the global best institutions as a whole and divided by two, with rounding to get a list of world class rep universities the general Rule I go with is top 100 is world class but it is hard to get both high scores for maths and high scores for institution as a whole so I allow multiplier of 1.5 to allow a score of 150.

    Id normally say top 10 so I allow top 15. A* grade prestige
    Then top 30 so I allow 45 A grade prestige
    top 50 so I allow 75 B grade Prestige
    Top 100 so 150 C grade Prestige



    Prestige Category A*
    3. Cambridge
    5. Oxford
    11. Imperial

    This category is the elite of the elite world class no comparison delighted if you get into here, go all out to get into one of these 3

    prestige Category A

    28.Edinburgh
    42. UCL
    42. Warwick

    This Category is the top of the world class whilst been just outside the ultimate glory Still really Elite and highly prestigious you can be delighted with this but not quite as happy as A* category

    Prestige Category B
    53.Manchester
    57. LSE
    59. Bristol
    74. Kings

    This category is world class But not world class Elite you can be satisfied with this but will always have the pain of knowing whilst your technically got into world class you didn't get into Elite world class. I guess can be satisfied with this.

    Prestige Category C
    76. Nottingham
    79. Birmingham
    95. Glasgow
    110. Leeds
    150. Durham

    This is category is kind of just scraping world class you can definitely live with going into this category but you will always feel you let yourself down. you still got yourself Prestige but its kind of like just scraping it.


    This can be misleading though I mean world if your not worried about international reputation then Bath and LoughBorough are very strong universities and Durham fairs a lot better rather then Just scraping in.

    there are still some universities that have very good career prospects and still worth going to like Surrey, It doesn't have Prestige but it is a very strong university.

    Prestige matters a lot to me though.
    Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but no one cares about international university rankings. And anyone who thinks they are important needs a trip to the real world - even IB don't care about the international rankings of a university.
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    I couldn't care less about the Russel Group, I had to go on Wikipedia to find which of mine were part of it. I'm not really sure what it means, my conjecture is that it allows most of the top universities to coordinate aims and lobby together.
    RG: Cam, Warwick, Durham
    Else: St Andrews, Bath

    As for that list of maths prestige, uh, I gather you put it together from data, but it's horrendous by most metrics I'd consider picking by.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but no one cares about international university rankings. And anyone who thinks they are important needs a trip to the real world - even IB don't care about the international rankings of a university.
    what is IB?

    well depends what you mean i don't think UK companies will care about the Universities international reputation but I do think it makes a big difference if I need to get Immigration out of the UK.

    You know recently I have been in and witnessed a few conversations where people blamed the Jewish Elite for the worlds Economic worries, and justified concentration camps for Jews!!

    Now don't get me wrong I am not for a second going to imply this is a main stream view point, I know it isn't. However witnesses say things like I am over reacting or lets just everyone agree to disagree. The fact is, whilst this is not main stream view points it is now socially acceptable to hold that political opinion.

    I don't believe in any religion but I am ethnically Jewish the trend is scary and anti semeticsm seems to be on the rise in the younger generations.

    Whilst I think Britain turning into a Nazi State is not a highly probable outcome, I recognize it is a possible one.

    I need a degree that can get me out of this country if I need to get out.

    international Prestige makes a difference for that.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but no one cares about international university rankings. And anyone who thinks they are important needs a trip to the real world - even IB don't care about the international rankings of a university.
    Implying national rankings do?

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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    what is IB?

    well depends what you mean i don't think UK companies will care about the Universities international reputation but I do think it makes a big difference if I need to get Immigration out of the UK.

    You know recently I have been in and witnessed a few conversations where people blamed the Jewish Elite for the worlds Economic worries, and justified concentration camps for Jews!!

    Now don't get me wrong I am not for a second going to imply this is a main stream view point, I know it isn't. However witnesses say things like I am over reacting or lets just everyone agree to disagree. The fact is, whilst this is not main stream view points it is now socially acceptable to hold that political opinion.

    I don't believe in any religion but I am ethnically Jewish the trend is scary and anti semeticsm seems to be on the rise in the younger generations.

    Whilst I think Britain turning into a Nazi State is not a highly probable outcome, I recognize it is a possible one.

    I need a degree that can get me out of this country if I need to get out.

    international Prestige makes a difference for that.
    You're right anti-semitism is on the rise, which is disgusting, BUT let's get back on topic lol.

    If you leave the country for elsewhere, as long as it's held by a reputable university that is known - you'll be fine. You also have to remember that league tables are designed to serve students and not employers, they change regularly and vary wildly - it simply would be bad practice for a recruitment department to use them.
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    (Original post by _Fergo)
    Implying national rankings do?

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    UK league tables are just as ridiculous, but they probably matter a bit more than international rankings.

    It's repute some employers are after and UK league tables don't show that very well because positions vary so much as well as methodology.

    Repute is gained through a long established history and/or the graduates they churn out.
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    (Original post by Hedgehog1999)
    Putting a dampner on this thread - more and more major employers are removing university names from job applications to mitigate against bias and increase social mobility! Sorry folks but it is becoming less and less relevant in the real world of work if you went to a RG uni or not....
    Indeed

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    (Original post by jamestg)
    You're right anti-semitism is on the rise, which is disgusting, BUT let's get back on topic lol.

    If you leave the country for elsewhere, as long as it's held by a reputable university that is known - you'll be fine. You also have to remember that league tables are designed to serve students and not employers, they change regularly and vary wildly - it simply would be bad practice for a recruitment department to use them.
    hmm well that is the thing its about giving myself the option of getting out of the country should things get bad enough. Different countries have different requirements for Immigration but generally been highly skilled in an area of high utility helps. You need to get a Job and be highly skilled.

    I think my chances are higher with Oxbirdge+ Imperial. I really don't know if there really is any differences in my chances if I graduate from Newcastle instead of Warwick.

    Its just what do you mean by "reputable university that is known" would that Include the likes of Kent and Hull?

    I would assume not. I think its universities Like Bath Loughborough and Surrey which make me wonder.

    These three universities are very good in the UK however internationally they really don't appear to be known.

    I assume Hull and Kent wouldn't help me but would those three?
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    what is IB
    In this context, Investment Banking.

    And just to add, the relative "prestige" of your university will not be a factor when an immigration officer at your new country is deciding if they will give you a visa.

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    (Original post by jamestg)
    UK league tables are just as ridiculous, but they probably matter a bit more than international rankings.

    It's repute some employers are after and UK league tables don't show that very well because positions vary so much as well as methodology.

    Repute is gained through a long established history and/or the graduates they churn out.
    UK rankings are comparatively horrible - they don't matter full stop. International rankings at least have better criteria.

    The second part is true.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    In this context, Investment Banking.

    And just to add, the relative "prestige" of your university will not be a factor when an immigration officer at your new country is deciding if they will give you a visa.

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    Yes I know that but one thing that would make a difference is the type of Job I have lined up, and how specialist it is. I want to know someone in Australia would know that the Degree I have is a reputable one. I worry that outside of Oxbridge/ Imperial they wont.

    I mean since it would be a mathematical type job I think they would know about Warwick. However would they know about Southampton or Nottingham etc?

    this is what puts me off Surrey Bath and LoughBorough despite the fact I know they are great universities I don't think a perspective employer in Australia or USA would know that. If I am wrong in that assumption its definitely worth knowing about.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    Don't mean to burst anyone's bubble but no one cares about international university rankings. And anyone who thinks they are important needs a trip to the real world - even IB don't care about the international rankings of a university.
    I'd say the QS rankings are quite good for undergrad, with Times HES & ARWU only being good for postgraduate studies.

    "The QS rankings put student experience at the absolute top, emphasizing the importance of a diverse and international student body, student faculty ratio, and a good reputation from big employers (this is a very subjective and arbitrary one). This ranking is perhaps suited to those who do not intend to do research after university, and go straight for the job market. It also highlights good teaching which I guess is always important in a university education."

    QS Methodology: http://www.topuniversities.com/qs-wo...gs/methodology

    This methodology is a lot better (in my opinion, at least) than that of any national ranking. The Guardian rankings place Coventry above Edinburgh, Bristol, and King's...
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    (Original post by DarkEnergy)
    I'd say the QS rankings are quite good undergrad, with Times HES & ARWU only being good for postgraduate studies.

    "The QS rankings put student experience at the absolute top, emphasizing the importance of a diverse and international student body, student faculty ratio, and a good reputation from big employers (this is a very subjective and arbitrary one). This ranking is perhaps suited to those who do not intend to do research after university, and go straight for the job market. It also highlights good teaching which I guess is always important in a university education."

    QS Methodology: http://www.topuniversities.com/qs-wo...gs/methodology

    This methodology is a lot better (in my opinion, at least) than that of any national ranking. The Guardian rankings place Coventry above Edinburgh, Bristol, and King's...
    I dont think anyone takes the guardian seriously.
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    I dont think anyone takes the guardian seriously.
    That may be true, but that was just one example, and not the main point of my post at all.

    "The Complete University Guide" national rankings places Kent above Bristol and Manchester.
    "The Times | The Sunday Times" national rankings place Dundee above Edinburgh.
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    somehow none of my choices are a RG uni. They either dont have my course, i dont like their course or they are too far away
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    All of my choices are RG, unintentionally, they just give me the opportunity to study the periods I wanted to study for my History degree, in the way that I preferred to study (traditional and intensive).
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    Yes I know that but one thing that would make a difference is the type of Job I have lined up, and how specialist it is. I want to know someone in Australia would know that the Degree I have is a reputable one. I worry that outside of Oxbridge/ Imperial they wont.

    I mean since it would be a mathematical type job I think they would know about Warwick. However would they know about Southampton or Nottingham etc?

    this is what puts me off Surrey Bath and LoughBorough despite the fact I know they are great universities I don't think a perspective employer in Australia or USA would know that. If I am wrong in that assumption its definitely worth knowing about.
    Someone offering you a job in Australia will (hopefully) be impressed by how good a mathematician you are, and how good a fit you are for their position, and what relevant experience or skills you have, and what is your interest in their company and the role. The last thing they will be interested in is which university you went to. They will want to employ a good candidate, not a "famous" university.

    Oh and their famous immigration points-based system currently* gives you 15 points for having a BSc/Msc/BEng/etc from a recognised institution. Now for British engineers that's any degree accredited by the Engineering Council UK. The vast majority of UK universities offering engineering degrees are accredited. So if an engineering degree is from Cambridge or Surrey or Kingston it's recognised and gains you 15 points (out of the minimum 60 required). (Or 20 points if it's a PhD.)

    No bonus points for Cambridge. At all.

    (I don't know their requirements for maths careers.)

    *international visa requirements change all the time. Another reason that planning your university choices today on the basis of a future plan to immigrate is overthinking things.
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    When I applied I applied 4 RG Unis: Cambridge, Exeter, Liverpool and Durham and one non RG: Surrey

    Them being RG did not affect my choices.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    Someone offering you a job in Australia will (hopefully) be impressed by how good a mathematician you are, and how good a fit you are for their position, and what relevant experience or skills you have, and what is your interest in their company and the role. The last thing they will be interested in is which university you went to. They will want to employ a good candidate, not a "famous" university.

    Oh and their famous immigration points-based system currently* gives you 15 points for having a BSc/Msc/BEng/etc from a recognised institution. Now for British engineers that's any degree accredited by the Engineering Council UK. The vast majority of UK universities offering engineering degrees are accredited. So if an engineering degree is from Cambridge or Surrey or Kingston it's recognised and gains you 15 points (out of the minimum 60 required). (Or 20 points if it's a PhD.)

    No bonus points for Cambridge. At all.

    (I don't know their requirements for maths careers.)

    *international visa requirements change all the time. Another reason that planning your university choices today on the basis of a future plan to immigrate is overthinking things.
    I would have thought though that they gage how good I am at maths by the University I attended.

    I mean it is well known that Oxbridge/Imperial/Warwick have very difficult rigorous maths programs, whilst other universities not so much.

    If I was an employer my attitude of selecting for reputable institutions would be based on the assumption that those institutions had a rigorous maths program so I was selecting a more qualified competent employee.

    I actually spoke to a weaker university at the uni fair on Saturday I spoke to a few weak ones in fact as I believe in challenging my assumptions.
    One of the weak ones they asked for BCC btw (most decent maths courses ask for AAA or better occasional AAB) actually tried to sell the degree strongly to me based on the fact they are easy to get into. I actually asked if the degree is easier to complete due to be dumbed down and he said yes!!!

    I put that in another thread btw, but that is the point how would employers know I am a good mathmatician? surely by my degree grade and the institution I graduate from?

    Their may not be a great deal of difference between Bristol and Nottingham, but their would be between these two and Imperial/Oxbridge.
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    (Original post by Luke7456)
    Their may not be a great deal of difference between Bristol and Nottingham, but their would be between these two and Imperial/Oxbridge.
    Well, all will earn you the same 15 points in Australia.

    And you might be interested in the Offer rates to read MAST at Cambridge (i.e. Part III of their Mathematics Tripos) for applicants with an undergrad from various institutions :
    Bath : 33%
    Bristol : 55%
    Imperial : 46%
    Loughborough : 33%
    Nottingham : 64%
    Oxford : 57%
    Surrey : 50%
    Sussex : 50%

    You'd think Cambridge would be pretty fussy about who they take on for their blue riband course... and indeed they probably are, but it's clear the prior university makes little difference to them.

    I am not saying you shouldn't aim for Cambridge, or wherever, so long as its because you think their course, and teaching style, is right for you. But don't do it for some nebulous and misplaced concept of "prestige" - or worse, because you think others will be as impressed by "prestige" as you are.
 
 
 
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