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Why do Brexiteers hate the rule of law? watch

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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    The ruling was on the legal matter of whether the executive has the power to unilaterally strip British citizens of rights established by an Act of Parliament in relation to the European Communities Act 1972; it's nothing to do with trying to get a 'right' answer politically.

    Anyway, referenda in the UK have always been rather like consultations - unless established otherwise by Parliament (so, if anything, a precedent is being followed). The 1979 referendum on whether Scots supported the proposed devolved Scottish legislature was passed 52-48 (like the most recent one), but the law establishing it was repealed (by MPs) anyway thanks to an amendment to the law which stipulated that 40 percent of the total electorate must approve for it to be upheld (the turnout was low enough that the threshold wasn't reached). Substitute the judiciary for the amendment and the hysterical Leave voters for the SNP, and it's plain that this attack on the judiciary is what is unprecedented.

    Shows you how poor civics education (or lack of it, rather) is in this country.
    Well said.
    It's downright shocking to see MPs and high level journalists be so unaware of the difference between law and politics.
    Perhaps they are aware but just realise they can fake ignorance, given that there is a general indifference to the truth nowadays.


    It's a disgrace for the government and Parliament to attack our independent judiciary like they have been.
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    (Original post by BobSausage)
    What annoys me is that the country voted and almost all those eligible to vote turned up and a majority said they wanted to leave, now 3 men have the right to just turn up and tell us the population of the country that we have no right to decide how our country is run.
    But they haven't done that. Thy've just said that Parliament must vote to leave the EU. And they haven't done that just because they feel like it - they've reached their judgment having considered what the UK's constitution says.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    But they haven't done that. Thy've just said that Parliament must vote to leave the EU. And they haven't done that just because they feel like it - they've reached their judgment having considered what the UK's constitution says.
    Unfortunately we are living in a post-truth world where truth, logic and reason are seen as elements of a metropolitan, elitist conspiracy rather than things to be sought.
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...ing-otherwise/

    So the Daily Telegraph, which is meant to be a respectable newspaper is asking the Supreme Court to overturn the legal ruling, despite it being legally correct and instead decide the case on political grounds.
    Great idea, let's scrap hundreds of years of legal principles and make legal decisions based on mob rule.

    Sigh. The Daily Telegraph seems little more than a posh Daily Mail at the moment.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    It has astonished me to see the reaction of the press and leave voters to the three high court judges.
    The Daily Mail criticised one for being 'openly gay' and called the three judges 'enemies of the people'
    The Daily Telegraph was much the same (minus the gay slur)
    The Daily Express lied and accused the judges of 'blocking Brexit'.

    And in the press we have had lots of Tory MPs criticising the court's decision as they believe it was politically wrong.

    Let's get things straight:

    • The High court was asked a legal question, not a political one. It was asked what the legal process for exiting the EU was, as a matter of British constitutional law.
    • The referendum was politically binding but not legally binding. So saying that the judges made the incorrect legal decision because '17.4 million voted' leave is totally irrelevant to a court case as the referendum had no legal effect.
    • The decision does not 'block Brexit' in any way, shape or form. It simply states the correct legal process for Brexit as a matter of British law.

    It seems that a great deal of leave voters want our courts to disapply the rule of law and judge a legal case on political, rather than legal considerations.It is absolutely disgusting to see our independent judiciary labelled as 'enemies of the people' and have their credibility questioned for upholding the rule of law and making the correct legal decision.

    In our country we believe in the rule of law, that no one is above the law. Not celebrities, not politicians, not the government and not even the royal family.

    I don't know why so many hate that so much.
    How truly ironic it is to see all the Brexiteers who claimed they wanted powers to be returned to Parliament now castigating the law and those interpreting it for doing exactly that. :rolleyes:

    I've just been listening to a story that a woman called Gina Miller in the US, a teacher, has been deluged with threats to kill her, hate messages, people wanting her and her children to get cancer - these are kippers and the like from the UK. This is the level of fascistic threat that the politics of Leave mean in reality.

    We are dealing with a reactionary race-hate movement not seen in this country since Oswald Moseley and his blackshirts trying to ape Hitler and take over London for the Nazis.

    The threat is real and we are going to have to fight back. We are going to have to defend Parliamentary democracy against a tidal wave of totalitarian and anti-democratic people, egged on by the right wing media, who are now visibly longing for blood in the streets. They see this as their big opportunity to overthrow British democracy and replace it with oligarchical rule - a Putin in No 10 and a Chinese-style suppression of worker's and people's rights.

    This is a global movement by a section of capitalism, with Trump in the US representing the same trend and many similar movements in other Western countries. The aim is to manipulate working class people at a time of economic threat into supporting dictatorship.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    People hate it because they don't trust that the bureaucrats they elect are entirely representative of them and they consider these judges to be part of the 'elite establishment'.

    Ultimately the people were given power for once and they now fear that this power will not be realised.
    If you cant respect the rule of law, then you might as well whip up a mob now and start the revolution. People are stupid and fail to understand what the legal process is.

    MPs are elected representatives. If you dont like it then you cna vote for different ones next time round.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    If you cant respect the rule of law, then you might as well whip up a mob now and start the revolution. People are stupid and fail to understand what the legal process is.

    MPs are elected representatives. If you dont like it then you cna vote for different ones next time round.
    Some people are stupid and don't understand the legal process. Others like journalists and high rank tories know perfectly well what the rule of law is yet simply don't care and are willing to be purposely ignorant to whip up an angry mob in their favour.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    How truly ironic it is to see all the Brexiteers who claimed they wanted powers to be returned to Parliament now castigating the law and those interpreting it for doing exactly that. :rolleyes:

    I've just been listening to a story that a woman called Gina Miller in the US, a teacher, has been deluged with threats to kill her, hate messages, people wanting her and her children to get cancer - these are kippers and the like from the UK. This is the level of fascistic threat that the politics of Leave mean in reality.

    We are dealing with a reactionary race-hate movement not seen in this country since Oswald Moseley and his blackshirts trying to ape Hitler and take over London for the Nazis.

    The threat is real and we are going to have to fight back. We are going to have to defend Parliamentary democracy against a tidal wave of totalitarian and anti-democratic people, egged on by the right wing media, who are now visibly longing for blood in the streets. They see this as their big opportunity to overthrow British democracy and replace it with oligarchical rule - a Putin in No 10 and a Chinese-style suppression of worker's and people's rights.

    This is a global movement by a section of capitalism, with Trump in the US representing the same trend and many similar movements in other Western countries. The aim is to manipulate working class people at a time of economic threat into supporting dictatorship.
    Like i've said, the greatest threat to the West is the rising tide of right wing populism sweeping all before it.

    Welcome to Brexit Britain where it is acceptable to label judges as 'enemies of the state', to send death threats to people you disagree with, to violently attack the Polish communities, to scapegoat immigrants for all our problems, to dehumanise refugees and to murder MPs that you disagree with.

    The values of liberty, tolerance and openness face a greater threat today than they have faced in decades. We should never take them for granted and never underestimate the sheer evil that human beings are capable of.
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    (Original post by BobSausage)
    What annoys me is that the country voted and almost all those eligible to vote turned up
    The tyrnout was decent at 72.2%, but that still leaves 27.8% who did not vote and a significnat number by anyones recknoning.

    now 3 men have the right to just turn up and tell us the population of the country that we have no right to decide how our country is run.
    They havent just turned up. They are High court judges whop have attained their position becayse they are good at what they do. They have simply made a ruling on what the law says. That is their job.

    The unfairness that over half the eligible population wants something to happen but 3 random people can just say 'no' and halt the whole movement. These people, as stated by most newspapers were un-elected so we have no say in who is actually judging this, and it is unlikely it was done 100% professionally leaving all bias outside of the court room as it is a decision that will affect them.
    Again they are not random people at all. A referendum has no binding authority. It never has. It will be followed. They have merely pointed out the correct legal process. Have yoy studies law? Do you understand about the rule of law and the separation of powers?

    Your claim about it not being done professionally is layghable. they will or have issued their full judgement and lawyers will be able to see how they reached their decision. Only idiots an ignornat people are calling them into doubt, the correct way is to appeal and win via legal argument put before the Supreme court.
    Are you going to tell me the Law lords are randoms on the fiddle and unprofessional? Clearly if there decision was so bias then other lawyers wont have difficulty spotting it, their ruling will be rejected and you cna bring some corruption claims in. Maybe your claims are silly and just show a failure to understand what has been decided or how the law works, so you dont know what you are talking about.

    I mean surely if you are not allowed to be the judge or on the jury for the trial of someone you know, surely the same thing should apply to this: it's gonna affect them in some way so they will have bias and therefore will not be able to make a fair decision.
    There are rules concerning where someone has a conflict of interest. They would stand aside or someone would make a claim to their superiors that they should not have heard the case and were conflicted. There is no eviidence of this. If you have such evidence then you should contact the Lord Chancellor and the MOJ.



    And then bringing up the murder of MP Jo Cox, now that/'s jut blatantly ignorant. She was not killed directly for her beliefs, she intervened in a struggle which led to her being killed. She was not targeted out, she tried to break up a fight and was then caught in the middle of it. Whilst there are idiots like you trying to infer she was murdered for being a socialist.
    Around 1:00 pm on 16 June 2016, Cox was attacked by a man on Market Street, Birstall, West Yorkshire, after leaving her car to go to a library, where she had been scheduled to attend a constituency event.[8] The man was armed with a knife and a firearm (variously described as "old or makeshift" and "probably an old sawn-off shotgun".[9][10]

    A witness, retired rescue miner Bernard Carter-Kenny (age 77), was waiting for his wife outside the library and recognised Cox. Soon afterward, he witnessed the assailant stab Cox, who fell to the ground. The assailant then shot and stabbed Cox further. Carter-Kenny intervened, rushing to stop the attack, and suffered a stab wound to the abdomen as he tried to tackle the attacker.[8][11][12][13][14] Carter-Kenny was able to retreat to a nearby sandwich shop.[8] The attacker then fled the scene. Armed police officers attended the incident, and arrested a suspect nearby.[15]

    At 1:48 pm, Cox was pronounced dead by a doctor working with the paramedic crew attending.
    Thats the account from wiki. I will try and find the account which says she intervened in a struggle but that looks like she was directly targeted. I shall ookn at the news reports. Please link to your sources that it was simple intervening and she wasnt the traget at all.

    But back to the point. How can you claim that it is fair for 3 un-elected, biased fools to tell the majority of Britain that, although given the choice of whether or not they wanted to be in the EU, now their opinions count for nothing?
    This was only bought about by raving cooperation owners that believe they are less likely to make money out of the UK if we leave.
    Theres a reason judges are not elected and why the judiciary are separate from the executive and parliament. You have yet to probide any evidence they are bias or unprofessional although you make these claims. Do you understand what the rule of law is?

    If you stopped frothing and actually read what the significance of the decsions are and how you reached them then there might be less frothing from you.

    When we leave the EU it is important we comply with the law, so things are done correctly. We will still leave, but we have to follow the correct procedure or do you have an allergy to doing things legally?.
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    The PEOPLE voted for £350m a week to be given to the NHS.

    Now it seems like our "Westminster elite" politicians are going to deny the will of the people.

    It is time for the PEOPLE to TAKE BACK CONTROL and overthrow them and get the money that was promised.
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    I voted for Brexit and am a law student who agrees with the decision so dont tar everyone with the same brush, take up your issue with the media who just wanted to sell newspapers it's nothing new. it was the governments fault for their points of law they argued, their barristers clearly werent up to scratch but theres no doubt we'l leave either way
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    (Original post by JNDSAN)
    I voted for Brexit and am a law student who agrees with the decision so dont tar everyone with the same brush, take up your issue with the media who just wanted to sell newspapers it's nothing new. it was the governments fault for their points of law they argued, their barristers clearly werent up to scratch but theres no doubt we'l leave either way
    You are right, I should not have tarred all leave voters with the same brush.
    There are a great many however, who are as I described. Who have shown a clear contempt and disregard for the rule of law, our judiciary and Parliamentary sovereignty.
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    Glorious...

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...brexit-cartoon
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    How truly ironic it is to see all the Brexiteers who claimed they wanted powers to be returned to Parliament now castigating the law and those interpreting it for doing exactly that. :rolleyes:

    I've just been listening to a story that a woman called Gina Miller in the US, a teacher, has been deluged with threats to kill her, hate messages, people wanting her and her children to get cancer - these are kippers and the like from the UK. This is the level of fascistic threat that the politics of Leave mean in reality.

    We are dealing with a reactionary race-hate movement not seen in this country since Oswald Moseley and his blackshirts trying to ape Hitler and take over London for the Nazis.

    The threat is real and we are going to have to fight back. We are going to have to defend Parliamentary democracy against a tidal wave of totalitarian and anti-democratic people, egged on by the right wing media, who are now visibly longing for blood in the streets. They see this as their big opportunity to overthrow British democracy and replace it with oligarchical rule - a Putin in No 10 and a Chinese-style suppression of worker's and people's rights.

    This is a global movement by a section of capitalism, with Trump in the US representing the same trend and many similar movements in other Western countries. The aim is to manipulate working class people at a time of economic threat into supporting dictatorship.
    Lol calm down, this is kind of a crazy post
 
 
 
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