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Trump does not have the majority watch

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    (Original post by james813)
    Which party is it rigged in favour of?? The electoral college seats are adjusted based on the population of each state.
    Yes, which means many millions of votes are essentially lost. And twice in the last 5 elections the GOP has benefited.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Yes, which means many millions of votes are essentially lost. And twice in the last 5 elections the GOP has benefited.
    Actually it's been the Republicans every time but 1824, that does not mean it was made to favour them, they just happen to be the ones that get more of the purslane vote at the moment (couldn't comment on in the 19th century).

    The Constitution was written in 1787 and ratified in 1788. The Founding Fathers did not believe political parties should be a thing, thinking them uncinstructive towards Republicanism. The first party didn't form until a year later in 1789, and didn't really form until a few years after that, it also sounds as if it was more of a lobbying group for the first couple of years.

    The Democratic - Republican Party formed in the early 90s to combat the federalists, and within a decade had completely overwhelmed them. They then split in 1824 into the two parties we know today, one a Jacksonian party, the other anti Jacksonian.

    TL;DR it wasn't written to favour any party because there were none and the founding fathers were anti party when writing the constitution.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Actually it's been the Republicans every time but 1824, that does not mean it was made to favour them, they just happen to be the ones that get more of the purslane vote at the moment (couldn't comment on in the 19th century).

    The Constitution was written in 1787 and ratified in 1788. The Founding Fathers did not believe political parties should be a thing, thinking them uncinstructive towards Republicanism. The first party didn't form until a year later in 1789, and didn't really form until a few years after that, it also sounds as if it was more of a lobbying group for the first couple of years.

    The Democratic - Republican Party formed in the early 90s to combat the federalists, and within a decade had completely overwhelmed them. They then split in 1824 into the two parties we know today, one a Jacksonian party, the other anti Jacksonian.

    TL;DR it wasn't written to favour any party because there were none and the founding fathers were anti party when writing the constitution.

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    And what worked so well then works well now?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    And what worked so well then works well now?
    Yes, remember that the US is, as the name suggests, a union of states. Specifically of 50 federal states and a capital district, it is not one continuous state. On this basis consider the following:

    Candidate A wins every state and DC bar one (it's arbitrary which but I ironically like to chose Wyoming, even though CA would be the better one) but in that final state candidate B wins by enough to take the popular vote. Who has the stronger mandate to represent the 50 states?

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    (Original post by #ChaosKass)
    Aw bless, leftie liberals. A majority in itself means nothing. Trump won fair and square, so quit your whining.
    Ok, calm down...
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Yes, remember that the US is, as the name suggests, a union of states. Specifically of 50 federal states and a capital district, it is not one continuous state. On this basis consider the following:

    Candidate A wins every state and DC bar one (it's arbitrary which but I ironically like to chose Wyoming, even though CA would be the better one) but in that final state candidate B wins by enough to take the popular vote. Who has the stronger mandate to represent the 50 states?

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    What country is a continuous state?

    And the person who won the most votes.

    Also did you forget senate and congress in your scenario? Who would have a majority in those?
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    (Original post by sunshine774)
    Ok, calm down...
    Ignore her, epitome of the 4/5 white evangelicals voting Trump.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Different rules, last I checked the EU referendum didn't work in a similar way to the electoral college with remain winning in it.

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    He said the majority in itself means nothing - nothing about specifics.

    And in any case, the EU referendum was non-binding legally, so a 4% difference may not be viewed as significant enough (as per other countries on constitutional issues).
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    (Original post by _Fergo)
    He said the majority in itself means nothing - nothing about specifics.

    And in any case, the EU referendum was non-binding legally, so a 4% difference may not be viewed as significant enough (as per other countries on constitutional issues).
    You mean like when the EU forced Denmark and Ireland to rerun their referendums and France and the Netherlands were ignored.
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    (Original post by james813)
    You mean like when the EU forced Denmark and Ireland to rerun their referendums and France and the Netherlands were ignored.
    No, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

    But it is nonetheless so ignorant. Denmark's vote was so marginal, than Denmark negotiated AGAIN before giving a new referendum. As in, they revised the terms.

    Same with Ireland, which was reassured that it would not join the common defence policy.

    Which referendums were ignored in France & the Netherlands? On the Treaty for the Constitution? Because it was NOT ratified.

    I mean wow... Spewing lies AND thinking others will just believe them is ridiculous. Who would've thought a Brexit supporter would be so smart (sarcasm entirely intended).
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    (Original post by _Fergo)
    No, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

    But it is nonetheless so ignorant. Denmark's vote was so marginal, than Denmark negotiated AGAIN before giving a new referendum. As in, they revised the terms.

    Same with Ireland, which was reassured that it would not join the common defence policy.

    Which referendums were ignored in France & the Netherlands? On the Treaty for the Constitution? Because it was NOT ratified.

    I mean wow... Spewing lies AND thinking others will just believe them is ridiculous. Who would've thought a Brexit supporter would be so smart (sarcasm entirely intended).
    The Lisbon treaty brought in exactly the same measures through the back door.

    Twice the Irish people voted against the EU, and were bullied into rerunning their referendum.

    I do know rather more about the EU than most people <30 in this country and believe it has contempt for democracy and is becoming the new Eastern Bloc. But anyway, lets not derail the thread.
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    Meanwhile, in 2012

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    (Original post by yudothis)
    What country is a continuous state?

    And the person who won the most votes.

    Also did you forget senate and congress in your scenario? Who would have a majority in those?
    Pretty sure Iceland is, with a single central government which is only constrained and superceded by the constitution. Meanwhile in the US the federal government is entirely superceded by the stares unless the constitution states otherwise, as per the 10th Amendment, although there is plenty of unconstitutional federal government.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Pretty sure Iceland is, with a single central government which is only constrained and superceded by the constitution. Meanwhile in the US the federal government is entirely superceded by the stares unless the constitution states otherwise, as per the 10th Amendment, although there is plenty of unconstitutional federal government.

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    So what you are saying is the states have all the power except for exceptions? So what's the problem in your scenario?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So what you are saying is the states have all the power except for exceptions? So what's the problem in your scenario?
    Have you actually ever read the US Constituion, I would advise you do so before continuing, as well as getting a firmer understanding of legal superiority. The former does not take long, it's a rather short document, especially if read as amended, the latter shouldn't take long either, but that's harder to say.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you actually ever read the US Constituion, I would advise you do so before continuing, as well as getting a firmer understanding of legal superiority. The former does not take long, it's a rather short document, especially if read as amended, the latter shouldn't take long either, but that's harder to say.

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    I will if you answer my question.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    True but the political establishment which the Trump supporters opposed is as much Republican as Democrat.

    Trump's economic policies might make America poorer than Clinton's, but might give a bigger share of that smaller cake to those who backed Trump.

    America's infrastructure is poorer than that of most industrialised countries.

    Just think on this. America has a lot of elections and a low average turnout, but think of any other western countries where to queue for an hour to vote is normal and a 2-3 hour queue is not regarded as exceptional.
    poorer? what do you mean by this; less money put into it or overal grade ?
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    The popular vote doesn't actually matter. The electoral collage exists because the USA is more like the EU then we normally think. The federal government can't overrule state law for example(unless it's deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court).

    It's why nobody in the USA who actually could challenge the result (Hillary for example) is challenging it. Back in 2000 when al gore got more votes then bush he was also only a few hundred votes off the electoral collage being his (if he had won Florida - a state he lost by such a small margin).

    There is no chance Trump won't be president now. It's just not how the American system works and that isn't going to change any time soon.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So what you are saying is the states have all the power except for exceptions? So what's the problem in your scenario?
    That's about right. States give the power to the federal government not the other way around. Here Westminster is sovereign and gives the devolved administrations their powers. In America it's the other way around(via their constitution). It's the difference between a unitary state and a federal one.

    A recent example are the "bathroom bills" where they can't override state law.

    The American system is much like the EU one for electing parliament where each state has a different amount of representation. You have to gain the right to represent the majority of states not the backing of the majority of people... In the EU that's true for the commission.


    (Original post by _Fergo)
    He said the majority in itself means nothing - nothing about specifics.

    And in any case, the EU referendum was non-binding legally, so a 4% difference may not be viewed as significant enough (as per other countries on constitutional issues).
    Well it wasn't legally binding it was a majority under a vote where they promised that they would abide by the majority. If they ran an election on it the majority of parliamentary constituencies voted out. It would be very difficult for someone to try to block it.

    I think an election is coming and another shock for the remain MPs but in my opinion it would be best if the high court over turned the recent ruling so she can trigger it without a vote. The last thing I want are the tories with a massive majority negotiating our exit. At least right now it's a tiny majority.

    (Original post by james813)
    The Lisbon treaty brought in exactly the same measures through the back door.

    Twice the Irish people voted against the EU, and were bullied into rerunning their referendum.

    I do know rather more about the EU than most people <30 in this country and believe it has contempt for democracy and is becoming the new Eastern Bloc. But anyway, lets not derail the thread.
    The Lisbon treaty has 90% of the text that the EU constitution had. They have known this for years.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...on-398286.html
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    (Original post by SomeGuyHere)
    Well it wasn't legally binding it was a majority under a vote where they promised that they would abide by the majority. If they ran an election on it the majority of parliamentary constituencies voted out. It would be very difficult for someone to try to block it.

    I think an election is coming and another shock for the remain MPs but in my opinion it would be best if the high court over turned the recent ruling so she can trigger it without a vote. The last thing I want are the tories with a massive majority negotiating our exit. At least right now it's a tiny majority.
    No one said they'd try to block it (no one of influence at least). You seem to forget that the difference was just 4% - by no means significant enough to allow Leave do whatever they want. Hence Parliament must be able to debate on proposed terms.

    The Court can only view matters from a legal perspective - not political. That's why -among other things of course- Britain's judiciary is one of the most respected, influential around the world. I can't fathom how people want to reduce that and support idiotic leaflets saying judges are the enemies of the people. Truly incomprehensible.
 
 
 
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