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Hate crimes increase in the US after Trump's victory watch

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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    In what context would the things discussed be acceptable?
    I never said in any context they would. Besides, this thread is about the very real spike in hate crimes, not about questionable sources saying that the Clinton campaign incited violence towards Trump supporters.

    If it turned out to be unquestionably true, then of course I would condemn it. I make no pretence that Clinton is also corrupt and has many flaws. However, supposing it is true, inciting violence towards large crowds of Trump supporters is nowhere near as bad as systematically harassing, attacking and inciting hatred towards minorities.

    I reiterate, this thread is about post-election hate crimes. All you are doing is trying to detract attention from the topic in questioning by ranting about the Clinton campaign.
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    (Original post by Mekkiii)
    Ahh , typical strategy of lefties saying "hate crimes" increase after something or someone i didnt want was elected.

    Happened with Brexit.
    Ahh brilliant! Typical neoreactionary reply along the lines of 'muh typical liberals'.

    It is factually correct that there was a rise in hate crimes post-brexit vote. It is also factually true that there is surge in hate crimes across the pond.
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    (Original post by nutz99)
    Isolated incidents. As was the case during the campaign (you do remember that one of Trump's campaign offices was firebombed) Clinton supporters are kicking off (watch the news) big time and are rioting across the USA. Obviously they do not have the intelligence to understand what democracy is!
    Isolated incidents? What is your reasoning behind that?

    By the way, these 'stupid anti-democrats' are minorities fearing for their lives right now. Idiot.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    It quite clearly says in the article that it is not clear whether or not the video was edited in such away that would make it appear what it was supposedly saying.

    I don't understand the last part of your reply.
    Ok i understand ive been arguing this wrong. This video is real, you cannot simply question evidence out of existence. To refute a positive claim you must make a positive claim. The only good argument in the article is that the motiv is questionable. The point on its validity is unfounded, as unaltruistic motive =/= questionable evidence, arguing that a video may have been tampered with; simply because you want to believe that trump hired the reporter is not an argument. Moreover even if i grant you that its a 50/50 chance that the video has been edited ,all of the resultant events that fell out from this videos release point directly to it being true.

    My second point was replying to your claim that Trump is like Hillary, in that he has has been bough out by the middle eastern dictators and transnational mega banks.
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    (Original post by josh75)
    Ok i understand ive been arguing this wrong. This video is real, you cannot simply question evidence out of existence. To refute a positive claim you must make a positive claim. The only good argument in the article is that the motiv is questionable. The point on its validity is unfounded, as unaltruistic motive =/= questionable evidence, arguing that a video may have been tampered with; simply because you want to believe that trump hired the reporter is not an argument. Moreover even if i grant you that its a 50/50 chance that the video has been edited ,all of the resultant events that fell out from this videos release point directly to it being true.

    My second point was replying to your claim that Trump is like Hillary, in that he has has been bough out by the middle eastern dictators and transnational mega banks.
    Regarding your first point, I refer to another reply I made on this thread:

    This thread is about the very real spike in hate crimes, not about questionable sources saying that the Clinton campaign incited violence towards Trump supporters.

    If it turned out to be unquestionably true, then of course I would condemn it. I make no pretence that Clinton is also corrupt and has many flaws. However, supposing it is true, inciting violence towards large crowds of Trump supporters is nowhere near as bad as systematically harassing, attacking and inciting hatred towards minorities.

    I reiterate, this thread is about post-election hate crimes. All you are doing is trying to detract attention from the topic in questioning by ranting about the Clinton campaign.

    Regarding your second point, a post from another user coherently confirms the fact that T-dog is as bad, if not worse, than Clinton:

    "Trump was endorsed by DPRK, Putin, KKK, CPC, Don Black, Vojislav Seselj, Ilias Panagiataros, August Kreis III, Aleksander Dugin and Don King." - Orbital Rising

    How you cannot be concerned that Fascist organisations and figures endorse Trump I have no idea...
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    Regarding your first point, I refer to another reply I made on this thread:

    This thread is about the very real spike in hate crimes, not about questionable sources saying that the Clinton campaign incited violence towards Trump supporters.

    If it turned out to be unquestionably true, then of course I would condemn it. I make no pretence that Clinton is also corrupt and has many flaws. However, supposing it is true, inciting violence towards large crowds of Trump supporters is nowhere near as bad as systematically harassing, attacking and inciting hatred towards minorities.

    I reiterate, this thread is about post-election hate crimes. All you are doing is trying to detract attention from the topic in questioning by ranting about the Clinton campaign.

    Regarding your second point, a post from another user coherently confirms the fact that T-dog is as bad, if not worse, than Clinton:

    "Trump was endorsed by DPRK, Putin, KKK, CPC, Don Black, Vojislav Seselj, Ilias Panagiataros, August Kreis III, Aleksander Dugin and Don King." - Orbital Rising

    How you cannot be concerned that Fascist organisations and figures endorse Trump I have no idea...
    You conceit that the video is real because you have just capitulated.

    Firstly, i would like sources to all of those. Also im pretty sure the democrats had relations with the kkk as well. moreover none of these groups have paid trump, nor do we know why specifically they like Trump; seeing the apauling media bias it would be a very reasonable assumption to think that they have seen a hyperbolic rhetoric from the media and thought that trump aligns with their ideas.

    Finally even if i where to grant you that it were as you are presenting it(they understand all of trumps policies what he wants and who he represents) they have an infinitesimal amount of political power compared to the people that have paid Hillary. These people cant economically destroy countries and then force them into austerity or fund terrorist organisations, they are on the frindge of society and any evidence of colusion with these people will result in unbeatable amount of deadlock for Trump. They are not the same.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    http://www.telesurtv.net/english/new...1109-0037.html

    And this, ladies and gentlemen is why Clinton was a better choice in spite of her numerous flaws. Inevitably, the nasties are emerging from the woodwork. Before we know it, racialist pseudoscience, gay conversion 'therapy', forced pregnancy, antisemitism and indiscriminate, generalised 'criticism' of ALL Muslims will be considered mainstream thanks to Trump.

    I bet all the white supremacists fascists* are having a f*cking party right now. There will be a backlash in America. If and when this influences opinion in the UK and elsewhere, there will be a backlash. And I promise you that, as a 'pc liberal social justice warrior', I will be part of this backlash.

    Stay safe, minorities.

    Spoiler:
    Show



    *I make no apology for using this term. It is a perfect representation of a significant proportion of Trump supporters ie the Alt Right.


    There have also been plenty of reports of black people verbally and physically abusing people who voted for Trump. There have been thousands upon thousands of Clinton voters protesting against the result with a large number of the protests turning violent.

    Don't try to pretend that there are only bad people in the Trump camp, the fact of the matter is that there are *******s on both sides of the divide.
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    Brexit number 2 isn't it
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    (Original post by josh75)
    You conceit that the video is real because you have just capitulated.
    No I haven't - I merely reinforced that we don't know whether it was. And given the record of who it was created by, my bets are on falsehood.

    (Original post by josh75)
    Firstly, i would like sources to all of those. Also im pretty sure the democrats had relations with the kkk as well. moreover none of these groups have paid trump, nor do we know why specifically they like Trump; seeing the apauling media bias it would be a very reasonable assumption to think that they have seen a hyperbolic rhetoric from the media and thought that trump aligns with their ideas.
    North Korea: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-dull-hillary

    Putin: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/17/po...a-putin-trump/

    CPC: see below Serbian Nationalist leader Seselj

    KKK: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7406966.html (after election)

    Don Black: http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-...ebsite-2015-12

    Vojislav Seselj: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ump-01-04-2016

    Ilias Panagiataros: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11388844...reek-neo-nazis

    August Kreis III: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2426520

    Aleksander Dugin: http://www.weeklystandard.com/putins...rticle/2001344

    Don King: http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/...st_perfec.html

    (Original post by josh75)
    Finally even if i where to grant you that it were as you are presenting it(they understand all of trumps policies what he wants and who he represents) they have an infinitesimal amount of political power compared to the people that have paid Hillary. These people cant economically destroy countries and then force them into austerity or fund terrorist organisations, they are on the frindge of society and any evidence of colusion with these people will result in unbeatable amount of deadlock for Trump. They are not the same.
    You are in denial. The fact that these people support Trump, coupled with the rise in hate crimes, show that the far-right is on the rise and see Trump's presidency as an opportunity to further their sickening agenda. For a black guy, I'm surprised at how naive you are regarding these issues.

    Trump didn't need donations, because as he constantly brags about, he is a very rich TAX DODGING man. Doesn't detract from the fact that his supporters are more dangerous than Clinton's donors.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    http://www.telesurtv.net/english/new...1109-0037.html

    And this, ladies and gentlemen is why Clinton was a better choice in spite of her numerous flaws. Inevitably, the nasties are emerging from the woodwork. Before we know it, racialist pseudoscience, gay conversion 'therapy', forced pregnancy, antisemitism and indiscriminate, generalised 'criticism' of ALL Muslims will be considered mainstream thanks to Trump.

    I bet all the white supremacists fascists* are having a f*cking party right now. There will be a backlash in America. If and when this influences opinion in the UK and elsewhere, there will be a backlash. And I promise you that, as a 'pc liberal social justice warrior', I will be part of this backlash.

    Stay safe, minorities.

    Spoiler:
    Show




    *I make no apology for using this term. It is a perfect representation of a significant proportion of Trump supporters ie the Alt Right.



    It will die down, as it did after the initial spike after brexit
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    There have also been plenty of reports of black people verbally and physically abusing people who voted for Trump. There have been thousands upon thousands of Clinton voters protesting against the result with a large number of the protests turning violent.

    Don't try to pretend that there are only bad people in the Trump camp, the fact of the matter is that there are *******s on both sides of the divide.
    I would argue that, when you examine the motivations behind those attacking Trump supporters, the ilk I referred to in my original post are much worse - they are systematically harassing and attacking people on grounds of race, religion and sexuality: Hate.

    Any form of violence is wrong, and I condemn those who are attacking Trump supporters. But I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that these people have turned violent out of fear for their own future and safety from hateful ideologies, not because of xenophobia.
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    (Original post by usainlightning)
    It will die down, as it did after the initial spike after brexit
    Let's hope so!
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    I really do not believe most of the a bunch of white men told me to go back to my own country nonsense. sure there are racist people but I really think a lot of it is just lies, it seems like nearly every black/muslim woman has been harassed in one day.

    No doubt some people have been but the sheer number is just false, really takes away from those actually experiencing hatred.
    My worry is not that the majority of Trump supporters are going to do anything bad, because while I think that this is nothing short of a disaster I have no doubt that the vast majority of Trump supporters are not the racist, bigoted fools that people try to make them out to be. I'm certain that most of his supporters back him because they're massively disenfranchised with the American political system. They've seen one politician after another say the same things while running, promise the same things when they've got into power, and yet time after time nothing has improved and for a huge portion of the American population life has got worse. So for them the fact that somebody has stood up, spoken his mind, proclaimed as loudly as he can the America is broken is like a beacon of hope for them.
    However what does worry me is that for the minority of Trump supporters who are massively racist, who hate Muslims, who want all immigrants to be thrown out, this gives them free reign to act out. In their mind they have a President who has backed up their views, so in their head they think that they can do what they want towards Black people, Muslims and immigrants because it's what their President has said should be done.
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    My worry is not that the majority of Trump supporters are going to do anything bad, because while I think that this is nothing short of a disaster I have no doubt that the vast majority of Trump supporters are not the racist, bigoted fools that people try to make them out to be. I'm certain that most of his supporters back him because they're massively disenfranchised with the American political system. They've seen one politician after another say the same things while running, promise the same things when they've got into power, and yet time after time nothing has improved and for a huge portion of the American population life has got worse. So for them the fact that somebody has stood up, spoken his mind, proclaimed as loudly as he can the America is broken is like a beacon of hope for them.
    However what does worry me is that for the minority of Trump supporters who are massively racist, who hate Muslims, who want all immigrants to be thrown out, this gives them free reign to act out. In their mind they have a President who has backed up their views, so in their head they think that they can do what they want towards Black people, Muslims and immigrants because it's what their President has said should be done.
    10/10 agree
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    No I haven't - I merely reinforced that we don't know whether it was. And given the record of who it was created by, my bets are on falsehood.



    North Korea: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...t-dull-hillary

    Putin: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/17/po...a-putin-trump/

    CPC: see below Serbian Nationalist leader Seselj

    KKK: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7406966.html (after election)

    Don Black: http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-...ebsite-2015-12

    Vojislav Seselj: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...ump-01-04-2016

    Ilias Panagiataros: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11388844...reek-neo-nazis

    August Kreis III: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2426520

    Aleksander Dugin: http://www.weeklystandard.com/putins...rticle/2001344

    Don King: http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/...st_perfec.html



    You are in denial. The fact that these people support Trump, coupled with the rise in hate crimes, show that the far-right is on the rise and see Trump's presidency as an opportunity to further their sickening agenda. For a black guy, I'm surprised at how naive you are regarding these issues.

    Trump didn't need donations, because as he constantly brags about, he is a very rich man. Doesn't detract from the fact that his supporters are more dangerous than Clinton's donors.
    Your bets are ridiculous, you have no logical reason to believe it was most likely fake, you have just talked your self up to hating trump so much you just want to deny reality.

    You havent proved there is a rise in hate crimes, where's your evidence to show there is a steep rise in people getting charged and convicted for commiting hate crimes. A bunch of social justice warriors crying to the police doesn't mean anything.

    If trump doesn't need donations then he isn't beholden to anyone, thus i am right.

    I gave you a reasoned argument why Hillary's owners are worse, you saying "his supporters are more dangerous than Clinton's donors" is not an argument, so it is dismissed. (Hint an argument looks like this: you are wrong, because; then you rebutt my points)
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    (Original post by josh75)
    Your bets are ridiculous, you have no logical reason to believe it was most likely fake, you have just talked your self up to hating trump so much you just want to deny reality.

    You havent proved there is a rise in hate crimes, where's your evidence to show there is a steep rise in people getting charged and convicted for commiting hate crimes.

    If trump doesn't need donations then he isn't beholden to anyone, thus i am right.

    I gave you a reasoned argument why Hillary's owners are worse, you saying "his supporters are more dangerous than Clinton's donors" is not an argument, so it is dismissed. (Hint an argument looks like this: you are wrong, because; then you rebutt my points)
    My bets are not ridiculous in the slightest. O'Keefe is a conservative political activist, and thus has vested interests partial to Trump. In his previous videos, he has used raw footage. The question remains as to why he decided to edit the one in question.

    I have provided strong evidence for a rise in hate crimes, see my original post. If that doesn't satisfy you, then here are a few more:

    When did you provide a reasoned argument that Clinton's donors were worse than Trump supporters. Please give full details.
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    (Original post by yummybee)
    Your an idiot! I do not support neither candidates but if you actually look at the statistics it is mostly Democrat protesters causing most of the crimes, possibly in your small mind you can't think of that.
    Many of these protesters are in fear of their lives. They are turning violent in response to fear, that they will persecuted and stripped of their rights. I don't condone violence, but they are not anywhere near as bad as hate crimes.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    http://www.telesurtv.net/english/new...1109-0037.html

    And this, ladies and gentlemen is why Clinton was a better choice in spite of her numerous flaws. Inevitably, the nasties are emerging from the woodwork. Before we know it, racialist pseudoscience, gay conversion 'therapy', forced pregnancy, antisemitism and indiscriminate, generalised 'criticism' of ALL Muslims will be considered mainstream thanks to Trump.

    I bet all the white supremacists fascists* are having a f*cking party right now. There will be a backlash in America. If and when this influences opinion in the UK and elsewhere, there will be a backlash. And I promise you that, as a 'pc liberal social justice warrior', I will be part of this backlash.

    Stay safe, minorities.

    Spoiler:
    Show



    *I make no apology for using this term. It is a perfect representation of a significant proportion of Trump supporters ie the Alt Right.
    Stop blowing things out of proportion..... Things will calm down in a few days. Same thing happened with Brexit. Clinton wasn't much better. I can't believe these 2 were the top 2 candidates. What a joke.
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    (Original post by jambojim97)
    My bets are not ridiculous in the slightest. O'Keefe is a conservative political activist, and thus has vested interests partial to Trump. In his previous videos, he has used raw footage. The question remains as to why he decided to edit the one in question.

    I have provided strong evidence for a rise in hate crimes, see my original post. If that doesn't satisfy you, then here are a few more:

    When did you provide a reasoned argument that Clinton's donors were worse than Trump supporters. Please give full details.
    You are ridiculous he was fired, there no cut during all the stuff he said, there no way that can be taken out of context. None of the people involved have denied the validity or called for the whole video to be reproduced.

    allegations and here say from social justice warriors and whiny liberals is not strong evidence. You are making a societal wide claim, if you dont have an in-depth analytical study done by an unbiased source you cant make that claim.
 
 
 
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