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    Ooo i do rather like Refused.....I'll download Relationship and see what its like :p:
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    (Original post by ApathyAndExhaustion)
    Opinion as to the quality of a particular band is far more valid than opinion as to said band's intentions. At least you have all the material with which to form a judgement when you're reviewing an album.
    The opinion is more forcified with evidence (and, arguably, can be seen as more valid) but that doesn't make something based more on speculation nonsensical. Yes, it may be less backed up than, say, an opinion on an album, but it's still an opinion and it counts.

    I really don't see your problem with the idea of sell-outs. It's much the same as speculating when a band lost its momentum - it's opinion, it has less facts to support it but that doesn't make it nonsense.
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    (Original post by dangle)
    The opinion is more forcified with evidence (and, arguably, can be seen as more valid) but that doesn't make something based more on speculation nonsensical. Yes, it may be less backed up than, say, an opinion on an album, but it's still an opinion and it counts.

    I really don't see your problem with the idea of sell-outs. It's much the same as speculating when a band lost its momentum - it's opinion, it has less facts to support it but that doesn't make it nonsense.
    It's more to do with the kind of accusatory nature of it. To say a band lost their way is more rooted in musical direction than to say they "sold out" - which has a much more offensive "you betrayed your principles" edge to it. I'd say it's more the kind of hatred and vitriol stirred up by claims of "selling out" that annoys me. It just seems to me very self-centred - a band changed, and so you assume they did it for unethical reasons, and attack them for it.
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    (Original post by ApathyAndExhaustion)
    It's more to do with the kind of accusatory nature of it. To say a band lost their way is more rooted in musical direction than to say they "sold out" - which has a much more offensive "you betrayed your principles" edge to it. I'd say it's more the kind of hatred and vitriol stirred up by claims of "selling out" that annoys me. It just seems to me very self-centred - a band changed, and so you assume they did it for unethical reasons, and attack them for it.
    I don't have a problem with it to be honest. People criticise artists all the time - if you're a fan of the artist you'll stick up for them, sure, but I prefer to just ignore most criticism unless I can make a counter-argument for it. Music is full of opinions, tastes and differences and I try to focus my time more on appreciating those I like rather than arguing the toss with someone else over an artist they dislike that I happen to like because, in fairness, they're entitled to their opinion - I won't, however, brush all opinions on sell-outs aside as nonsense, rather I'd target an individual example that I disagree with an argue the case against. It helps in my understanding of music.

    Or maybe i'm just not seeing the music scene through rose-tinted glasses.
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    (Original post by dangle)
    I don't have a problem with it to be honest. People criticise artists all the time - if you're a fan of the artist you'll stick up for them, sure, but I prefer to just ignore most criticism unless I can make a counter-argument for it. Music is full of opinions, tastes and differences and I try to focus my time more on appreciating those I like rather than arguing the toss with someone else over an artist they dislike that I happen to like because, in fairness, they're entitled to their opinion - I won't, however, brush all opinions on sell-outs aside as nonsense, rather I'd target an individual example that I disagree with an argue the case against. It helps in my understanding of music.
    I can't imagine a case in which someone would have a valid reason for calling a band sell-outs. I don't see the justification in bashing an artist based on speculation of their motives. If you don't like their change in direction, that's completely fine - as long as you don't like it in terms of musical preference. If you don't like it, and then try to contend that they now sound like that in order to make money, you're going to struggle to justify it.

    Or maybe i'm just not seeing the music scene through rose-tinted glasses.
    That sounded pretty snide. I'm not trying to contend bands don't change their sound in order to make money or gain fans. I'm rather saying that, given it's almost impossible to tell whether they did it for that reason or just because that's what they wanted to play, what's the point of attacking them on that basis?
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    (Original post by ApathyAndExhaustion)
    That sounded pretty snide. I'm not trying to contend bands don't change their sound in order to make money or gain fans. I'm rather saying that, given it's almost impossible to tell whether they did it for that reason or just because that's what they wanted to play, what's the point of attacking them on that basis?
    Oh, it wasn't meant to be snide. Probably the use of the smiley made it sound worse than I wanted it to.

    It's not impossible to speculate whether a band had a certain motive. Your agrument is that unless you have solid facts you can't argue whether they're a sellout - I don't think that's necessarily needed. I think it's allowable to base an opinion purely on a belief, speculation or whatever and obviously you feel that shouldn't always be the case. That's fine and obviously where our own opinions differ but I'd say anyone is perfectly allowed to criticise a band's motives even if they can't "read their minds" and see what they did it for.
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    (Original post by half face)
    I don't like accusing bands of selling out, but in the case of Modest Mouse I think it's justified. Listen to Lonesome Crowded West and then listen to their two most recent albums. It's hard to think that the band which made such a quirky, raw and angry masterpiece as LCW is the same band responsible for the radio-friendly, tepid pile of crap that is We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank. The fact that they now have Johnny Marr on guitar is the manky icing on a very depressing cake.
    I'm not sure I agree with you. Granted, I only own The Moon & Antarctica and Good News, and there is a fairly large gulf between the sound of those two. Despite the poppy nature of some tracks on Good News, I don't think this was a bid a for mainstream acceptance. Float On's crossover success was pretty much an accident, I think it's fair to say, and there are still plenty of songs on the album I wouldn't expect a non-alternative music fan to like (e.g. Satin in a Coffin, This Devil's Workday).
    I'm yet to hear the entirety of We Were Dead, but what I've heard seems as unique-sounding as most Modest Mouse songs, despite being radio-friendly.
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    Avril Lavigne - blatantly
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    (Original post by Clubber Lang)
    Avril Lavigne - blatantly
    Did she have much integrity to sell in the first place?
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    I dunno but I imagine her original emo fans are annoyed she now looks a bit like britney and is targetting the same audience, lol
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    (Original post by akmd)
    Metallica is the obvious answer. From one of the best metal bands around to a very mediocre 'rock' band. Such a shame. This new album is the last chance I'm giving them. If Rick Rubin can't help them, no one can!!!
    I dont think Metallica are sellouts actually, I think they just blow chunks without Cliff or Dave Mustaine.
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    I personally prefer the new Avril. The musics still awful, but at least shes honest about being a tool for the major labels now . No more pretending shes so rebellious and 'down' with the kids.
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    The new Avril is way better ;yes;.

    And hotter actually...
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    Hotter yes.............Music still awful though

    I had to endue that bloody girlfriend song about 50 times a day
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    Girlfriend was awesome
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    (Original post by vector)
    Girlfriend was awesome

    ........................
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    I'd say the biggest sell outs are the fans who turn on a band just because they become popular. Thats not what music is about
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    (Original post by Acquiesce04)
    I'd say the biggest sell outs are the fans who turn on a band just because they become popular. Thats not what music is about
    Ah yes they are annoying.

    As long as you like them, popularity doesnt really mean anything.
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    Thou shalt not stop liking a band just because they have become popular
    Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry

    - Dan Le Sac 2007
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    (Original post by Seanisonfire)
    ........................
    :rofl:
 
 
 
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