can the detention and torture of terror suspects be advocated? Watch

34253
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Anony mouse)
You have still missed the point.

I suspect that you are also an advocate of the ID cards and the DNA database and anything else that is against democracy and freedoms.

It is widely argued that ‘If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear’, in response to people who object to some of the new laws passed in the war against terrorism. People are left feeling foolish when they can only counter argue that such stringent measures are an invasion of privacy and simply erode our civil liberties. This is because it is becoming frowned upon whilst we are re-enforced that they are necessary.

However, the most significant point that is missed in this controversial contemporary issue is this: How do you know that eventually you will not have something to hide? Quite simply, if the future leaders of the world began to change their definition of words like ‘terrorist’, it could become so broad that it could include anyone who is anti government policies in the war against terror. Now do you see how this could apply to you?
Not ID cards omggzzz!!!1 It's not like the rest of Europe has them without issue, if anything they seem freer than we are. I would also hate for the government to have a small string of useless DNA on record, that would keep me awake at night. It's against my freedom to not carry a card around:rolleyes:! It's against my freedom to not have a small piece of identifying DNA useless for any purpose beyond this on a secure database for the purpose of high level crime protection:rolleyes:!

Although I agree I could quite easily fit a terrorist category if the categories changed the simple fact of the matter is I advocated its use in the theatre of war. The enemy would brutally torture us, now I know we're above this so that's why I advocated torture with no consequences in the long term. Information is the most important thing in any war and it can make or break a battle, the second a soldier steps on to the battlefield that's it, they've chosen to go there and they hold information we need to keep our men alive... so tough luck. You're gonna have to come up with an argument beyond 'my civil liberties wa wa' to convince me, tell me why it is more important to you that an enemy soldier isn't made tired than saving the lives of several soldiers.
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#42
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(Original post by Anony mouse)
What if that terror suspect says that he hasn't planted a bomb? Do you keep torturing him until he says that he has?

The whole point of protecting our rights not to be tortured is not so that we can look after potential suicide bombers, but so that we can ensure that no innocent person can ever be tortured by any government.
Being put in prison for something you didn't do can equally be regarded as torture, especially if you're in a cell all on your own... you'll go bat**** crazy in about 2 weeks. Yet you don't have a problem with this, is it because it's indirect or what?
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2026
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#43
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(Original post by Elipsis)
Being put in prison for something you didn't do can equally be regarded as torture, especially if you're in a cell all on your own... you'll go bat**** crazy in about 2 weeks. Yet you don't have a problem with this, is it because it's indirect or what?
It's a question of necessity. While the imprisonment of an innocent person for whatever period is tragic, it can be justified. Torture, on the other hand, perverts justice as people will confess to anything under such circumstances.
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(Original post by 2026)
It's a question of necessity. While the imprisonment of an innocent person for whatever period is tragic, it can be justified. Torture, on the other hand, perverts justice as people will confess to anything under such circumstances.
Confession under torture is pointless I agree, it's not like you can convict on it. However if under torture they happen to tell you were several enemy camps are based it's quite easy to check, therefore it has it's uses beyond simply trying to gain a confession. At the end of the day making an innocent person stand in a stress position only to be given no information is in no way as bad as detaining them for 20 years in solitary confinement, so why o why aren't you against that instead?
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Anony mouse
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#45
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(Original post by Elipsis)
Being put in prison for something you didn't do can equally be regarded as torture, especially if you're in a cell all on your own... you'll go bat**** crazy in about 2 weeks. Yet you don't have a problem with this, is it because it's indirect or what?
Okay Elipsis, that's a good question.

It's ultimately a question of balancing the interests of justice with our personal freedoms. I would be happy to be locked in a cell pending further investigation by the police in order to catch the criminals even if I may actually be innocent. But I am not happy with a society that can use force to inflict physical pain against someone who may be innocent.

I just think it goes too far, Elipsis.
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Anony mouse)
Okay Elipsis, that's a good question.

It's ultimately a question of balancing the interests of justice with our personal freedoms. I would be happy to be locked in a cell pending further investigation by the police in order to catch the criminals even if I may actually be innocent. But I am not happy with a society that can use force to inflict physical pain against someone who may be innocent.

I just think it goes too far, Elipsis.
I'm not talking locked up pending investigation i'm talking locked up forever even though you're innocent, without a right to re-trial. I guess I would just rather be temporarily physically tortured than mentally tortured for the rest of my life.
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