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To Irish TSR users (The Lisbon Treaty), poll. watch

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  • View Poll Results: Will you vote for or against the Lisbon Treaty?
    For
    8
    47.06%
    Against
    9
    52.94%

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    (Original post by Axiom)
    How so?
    Well, what reforms brought about by the Constitutional Treaty and subsequently the Lisbon Treaty do you believe to be 'constitutional' in nature, or significantly different from the reforms brought about by other EU treaties without referendums?
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    So Ireland is the only democracy in Europe!

    I'd put money on it being rejected everywhere else if the PEOPLE were given the chance to vote. I just don't know how the UK can call themselves a democracy when a minority of politicians decide everything about our country. Heck we didn't even elect the prime minister! What a joke.

    Even if everyone did vote against it though, they'd still press ahead.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Well, what reforms brought about by the Constitutional Treaty and subsequently the Lisbon Treaty do you believe to be 'constitutional' in nature, or significantly different from the reforms brought about by other EU treaties without referendums?
    Well, nothing in the case of the Lisbon Treaty. The Constitutional Treaty was a different matter, and in the eyes of the great unwashed, is identical to the Lisbon Treaty. Thus these referenda could, despite the best intentions of the EU bureaucracy, be perceived as being upon the content of the treaty. The wording of such referenda would also incline towards the latter rather than the former.

    However, don't get me wrong. I'd vote yes in such a referendum and indeed oppose the idea of the damned things in the first place.
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    (Original post by pitchy08)
    So Ireland is the only democracy in Europe!

    I'd put money on it being rejected everywhere else if the PEOPLE were given the chance to vote. I just don't know how the UK can call themselves a democracy when a minority of politicians decide everything about our country. Heck we didn't even elect the prime minister! What a joke.

    Even if everyone did vote against it though, they'd still press ahead.
    Not every nation rejected the treaty the first time around, there were a few nations who accepted it. The French and Dutch said no.
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    (Original post by benisright)
    Not every nation rejected the treaty the first time around, there were a few nations who accepted it. The French and Dutch said no.
    True. The problem is, the french voted no to say that they opposed Chirac's policies, or that of the government in general.
    I think that the same has happened in Ireland, people have said no , not so much to the treaty but to certain aspects of fianna fail's/brian cowen's policies.

    It has become virtually impossible now for the result of a referendum to be on the actual question being asked, it has become a vote of approval/disapproval of government.
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    (Original post by Jim-ie)
    Have been between two minds on the Lisbon treaty for a long time and even right now I'm not sure. I'm in favour of EU reforms, they need to happen. I'm not in favour of the proposed voting preceedures, in where a country like Germany or France with a massive population can have more votes than a country the size of Ireland regardless of input to the EU or their grieviances with an issue.
    Qualified majority voting has been in place for many policy areas for years. Ireland wielding less power in the Council (or indeed the European Parliament) is not something the Treaty of Lisbon would have introduced. Aside from which - do you also propose every country contributes equally to the EU budget?

    (Original post by Jim-ie)
    Other issues such as Euratom were barely spoken about.
    How is Euratom relevant though? It has been kept entirely separate from the Treaty, since many member states do not wish to integrate further in that particular field.
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    (Original post by thegluups)
    True. The problem is, the french voted no to say that they opposed Chirac's policies, or that of the government in general.
    I think that the same has happened in Ireland, people have said no , not so much to the treaty but to certain aspects of fianna fail's/brian cowen's policies.

    It has become virtually impossible now for the result of a referendum to be on the actual question being asked, it has become a vote of approval/disapproval of government.
    Actually i think a lot of people said no as a protest against the whole referendum! There campaign for the 'yes' vote made no sense. Generally because they were trying to explain a highly complex document. Whereas the 'no' vote were free to peddle lies
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    (Original post by Foeke)
    Qualified majority voting has been in place for many policy areas for years. Ireland wielding less power in the Council (or indeed the European Parliament) is not something the Treaty of Lisbon would have introduced. Aside from which - do you also propose every country contributes equally to the EU budget?


    How is Euratom relevant though? It has been kept entirely separate from the Treaty, since many member states do not wish to integrate further in that particular field.
    I dont propose anything I made it clear I wasn't sure what I was in favour of, I've read the lisbon treaty well enough that I was able to write an exam on it, and still don't know what I want. Ireland having a "smaller" voice, having less power, was exactly what the no campaign was based on.

    Lisbon treaty and Euratom are seperate but the feeling has been with Irelands voice being reduced, it would be outvoted on the matter when the time comes.
 
 
 
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