everyone seems to feel the need to declare to the world they're from a state comp Watch

InnocentEyes
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Fiasco)
No. This isn't about smearing each other, it's about recognising that going to a state comprehensive and getting very good grades is harder than going to a grammar/private. It doesn't detract from your achievements just because you went to a private school. Conversely, it bolsters a comp students application so that they can compete on a level playing field.

I put it to you - prove to me that getting into a private/grammar doesn't improve your chances significantly of achieving better grades (ignoring extreme examples)? You can't, because it does. Then shouldn't all students from state comp's be allowed a level playing field? Please don't make it out to appear that comp school kids are at an unfair advantage or that private/grammar school kids are at a disadvantage.
Oh don't get me wrong, I do believe in a level playing field and I do believe in allowing for any disadvantages based on education when assessing someone's acheivements. What I don't believe in is prejudice, or judgement. In my post I didn't say that no-one from a state comp should be allowed to state that fact and have it considered when applying to universities, jobs etc - there is no reason why they shouldn't. What I went off on a rant about () was the fact that purely because we can allow for a possible disadvantage due to a poor education doesn't mean that those who had a good education are automatically arrogant or stupid. I don't think we're really talking about the same thing here.

(and it winds *me* up personally when people feel the need to say they went to a comp. but that's in exactly the same way as it winds me up if people feel the need to add that they had a ****ty teacher at a private school/hayfever all through their exams/any other reason for their grades. when applying to university/jobs etc I believe in a meritocracy but if you want to boast sometimes your acheivements gotta stand alone :p:)
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Fiasco
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#42
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(Original post by InnocentEyes)
Oh don't get me wrong, I do believe in a level playing field and I do believe in allowing for any disadvantages based on education when assessing someone's acheivements. What I don't believe in is prejudice, or judgement. In my post I didn't say that no-one from a state comp should be allowed to state that fact and have it considered when applying to universities, jobs etc - there is no reason why they shouldn't. What I went off on a rant about () was the fact that purely because we can allow for a possible disadvantage due to a poor education doesn't mean that those who had a good education are automatically arrogant or stupid. I don't think we're really talking about the same thing here.

(and it winds *me* up personally when people feel the need to say they went to a comp. but that's in exactly the same way as it winds me up if people feel the need to add that they had a ****ty teacher at a private school/hayfever all through their exams/any other reason for their grades. when applying to university/jobs etc I believe in a meritocracy but if you want to boast sometimes your acheivements gotta stand alone :p:)
I wouldn't let it get to you. Everyone is always assessed on their individual merits, even if you went to a comp school and achieved brilliant grades if you're not right for the course/job you wont get it.
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Quady
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#43
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Well I found at uni a suprising number of people who went to weird schools. On my course people had been to private schools, grammar schools and single sex grammar schools.

Anyone who went to a single sex school seemed a bit messed over by the lack of experience (with the other sex) and private school people had an odd vocabulary incluing 'prep' and suck like.

I occationally make reference to my SC but only when I have weirdos telling me how great it was to do latin or whatever. I don't do it for sympathy, quite the opposite really. I do it to remind them I wasn't dumb enough for my parents to throw thousands of pounsd at my schooling or have the distraction of the opposite sex around or to be segregated with the other bright kids. Yet I'm stood next to them, better than some, equal to most. I'm almost ok with the grammar school kids, but wasn't all that money wasted on the private school lot I think?
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jelly1000
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#44
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I'm starting my A-Levels at a mixed state comp, having just left a private school & I don't feel I'll be at any disadvantage compared with my friends at my old school. I have loads of EC opportunities, probally more than at the private school because its smaller, at the induction the teachers seemed great, better than the ones at my old school & all of us are encouraged to apply for the top universities because the school believes we are all capable.
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Quady
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#45
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In which case, why go private in the first place?!
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HCD
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#46
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(Original post by Fiasco)
I was trying to make the point that grammar school kids always seem to make the point that they're state educated, and didn't pay for their grades. They make it out to be a struggle to get into Oxbridge between state and independent schools, when in reality grammar schools do have marginally better results than independent schools (I do have facts to back this up).

Basically, grammar schools kids aren't innocent when it comes to things like this.

Happy? :p:
Do you not think that the results can be attributed to the selective nature of the schools? Cleverer individuals will get better results on average, so it may have nothing to do with quality of teaching.
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Fiasco
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#47
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(Original post by HCD)
Do you not think that the results can be attributed to the selective nature of the schools? Cleverer individuals will get better results on average, so it may have nothing to do with quality of teaching.
Yes and the reults of these schools prove that. With selection your results will always be better, however the main point is the environment and quality (or lack of) teaching at comprehensive state schools. The best students do not nececarily go to grammar or private schools, pupils on this forum are proof of that (including myself :p:). These students are the ones held back most by the comprehensive system. Some schools just cannot provide for us.

Clever comprehensive students aren't ones that failed the 11+ or whatever. We have just ended up at our schools for a variety of reasons.
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jelly1000
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#48
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(Original post by Quady)
In which case, why go private in the first place?!
For two reasons:
1) Because my parents decided they wanted me to go private when I was 4. My mum did look at the state options but felt, correctly, that I would benefit more in a class of 18 than a class of 30. To me, at 4, my class of 18 seemed huge.
2) The state comprehensives that I currently live in the catchment area for are horrible, depressing places. The buildings are very 1960's towerblock esque, full of graffiti & the kids I see on the buses/in the streets really give you a bad impression of the school. They scream & swear e.c.t. However in the summer I shall be moving & the state comps in the area near my new house seem to be much better, cleaner, brighter, kids much better disiciplined, no shouting or swearing e.c.t.
Also I feel I benifitted from small class sizes at GCSE [my largest for a GCSE subject was 17] & the fact my school didn't need to fuss over getting D grade pupils up to C so could help people like me achieve their potential.
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billyboymccoy
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#49
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One of the reasons we announce it is so we distance ourselves from those typical private school students everyone sees and everyone hates. I live in a pretty posh area , my family's not doing too badly (probably could afford private school fees for 3 children but would mean cutting back on a lot) But I'm not like them!!! All blond and tanned and with short scruffy hair!! Girls hair all long and messy!! It worse in the mornings and at 4 oclock!!! 4 by 4s every where!!!! God damm and the mothers theres something about their voice!!!


But to be fair I know few older private school students so either there hidden or there not complete freaks. Must be just when their young or middle aged.
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DriftingBore
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#50
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So what, it's a ******* achievement if you get through a state comp with good enouhg grades to compete for a place at univeristy. Stop being morons.
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thanette
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#51
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It's an achievement wherever you have been-state or grammar school-to gain good grades. Too much emphasis is placed on the school being responsible for pupils gaining grades; as a teacher, it really irritates me when people and pupils think that they are something special for doing well just because they are at a comp. You should be doing well if you are working hard!!! It shouldn't be a big deal that you've done well just because you were at a comprehensive; if you work hard then you will do well.

I know that teaching can make a difference, but as far as I am concerned if your teachers aren't great you should take responsibility and strive to do your best-my teachers weren't that great/were never in etc, but I took responsibility, and gained top grades.
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DriftingBore
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#52
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(Original post by thanette)
It's an achievement wherever you have been-state or grammar school-to gain good grades. Too much emphasis is placed on the school being responsible for pupils gaining grades; as a teacher, it really irritates me when people and pupils think that they are something special for doing well just because they are at a comp. You should be doing well if you are working hard!!! It shouldn't be a big deal that you've done well just because you were at a comprehensive; if you work hard then you will do well.

I know that teaching can make a difference, but as far as I am concerned if your teachers aren't great you should take responsibility and strive to do your best-my teachers weren't that great/were never in etc, but I took responsibility, and gained top grades.
Yes, obviously most students who try hard will do well (some won't). But you are putting too much emphasis on the teaching. The reason going to a comp is so hard is the overall anti-learning environment. It makes it very hard to achieve good grades.
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forgottenromeo
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#53
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I'm from a state comp, I think it may have something to do with he government advertising the fact that they are putting pressure on uni's to take more "lower classes" into uni. Personally i think its insulting. I would rather get in on my own initiative than have someone say i can go just because my parents earn less. Where is the point in me trying in school if thats the case.
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thanette
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#54
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(Original post by DriftingBore)
Yes, obviously most students who try hard will do well (some won't). But you are putting too much emphasis on the teaching. The reason going to a comp is so hard is the overall anti-learning environment. It makes it very hard to achieve good grades.
I'm well aware of this-however, if people want to do well, they know they need to avoid this type of negative influence; I agree to an extent here, but also observe so many pupils stating this as the whole excuse for their failure. I really believe that they should learn to take responsibilty and work for their grades,ignoring what isn't conducive to it and responding to the positive influences and reasons that they should be trying to achieve.
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jelly1000
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#55
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(Original post by billyboymccoy)
One of the reasons we announce it is so we distance ourselves from those typical private school students everyone sees and everyone hates. I live in a pretty posh area , my family's not doing too badly (probably could afford private school fees for 3 children but would mean cutting back on a lot) But I'm not like them!!! All blond and tanned and with short scruffy hair!! Girls hair all long and messy!! It worse in the mornings and at 4 oclock!!! 4 by 4s every where!!!! God damm and the mothers theres something about their voice!!!


But to be fair I know few older private school students so either there hidden or there not complete freaks. Must be just when their young or middle aged.
If you had ever been to a private school you would know there are no such things as "typical private school students". And that they generally are not posh at all.
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pcok
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#56
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(Original post by kayscout)
If you go to a private school, you're more likely to think you're in with a shot at Oxbridge than someone who has spent their life in some **** school where hardly anyone goes to any university. I know that I thought that Oxbridge was a place solely for the very best of privileged geniuses, and my school is quite good. It's more of a shock to them to actually be there if they've never even considered they had a chance of being accepted. To many people the place has a sort of mysticism about it.
Yup that's exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it better lol.
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crazylemon
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#57
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Never heard anyone say this (I go to a private school) But then again the people ive ended up talking to at open days have been from grammar schools. I think school to an extent makes a difference but those who are truely talented and determined will succed regardless of school.
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billyboymccoy
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#58
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(Original post by jelly1000)
If you had ever been to a private school you would know there are no such things as "typical private school students". And that they generally are not posh at all.

Oh don't kid yourself, there defiantly is a "typical private school student". I'm not saying that there all like that, but a significant amount are. There is a definite look.
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wxy
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#59
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(Original post by billyboymccoy)
Oh don't kid yourself, there defiantly is a "typical private school student". I'm not saying that there all like that, but a significant amount are. There is a definite look.
Yours is a rather stubborn misconception, I see!

On a more serious note: people here are lucky to get free state education, and whatever its flaws, it is a good deal better than complete lack of (affordable) education with which other people in the world are provided. The vast majority of people who consistently remind anybody who will listen that they are from a comprehensive and disparage private schools are only seeking to make excuses for their own laziness.

Some, of course, really do have strong grounds for making complaints of this nature and are not seeking to shift responsibility, but they tend to have the good sense to couch their criticisms in less idiotic language...
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#60
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Maybe because it's harder to get into university if you're from a state school? And they are used to going to school with people who have no hope in hell of even getting the 5 A*-C that they need for A levels? It's entirely logical.
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