Should the Church of England appoint women bishops? Watch

UGeNe
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#41
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#41
Bishops are supposed to be closer to God than the rest of us mortals, and who are we to presume that God will be A'Ok with women Bishops? The fact that HE doesn't object now [we have FREE-WILL, ie on earth, we can do anything we can get away with!] doesn't mean it all will not be remembered on judgement day.
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anon53
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#42
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We have not done it for twenty centuries
This is true, but I intended to indicate that there should be some development and change. I am a Christian, but I think sometimes the Church's stance on some issues is a load of tosh! Surely the fact that everyone should be treated equally is obvious. In terms pf pastoral support, women tend to do a better job than men
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2026
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#43
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(Original post by anon53)
This is true, but I intended to indicate that there should be some development and change.
Any development and change should be theologically supported.

(Original post by anon53)
I am a Christian, but I think sometimes the Church's stance on some issues is a load of tosh!
Take it up with the Church.

(Original post by anon53)
Surely the fact that everyone should be treated equally is obvious.
Not really.

(Original post by anon53)
In terms pf pastoral support, women tend to do a better job than men
Irrelevant.
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L i b
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#44
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(Original post by 2026)
While we're certainly not constitutionally a secular country, the political system functions as a largely de facto secular State.
I don't know how much less secular you could realistically expect Britain to be: we require regular Christian practice in our state schools, we have Prayers before every sitting of the Houses of Parliament, our Queen is Crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury. The next step I imagine would be to march civil servants to the full eight prayers of the Daily Office.
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L i b
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#45
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(Original post by Jerry Meandering)
Seems to me that the Communion is heading for a split over what are very trivial issues. Who cares if it has women bishops and gay vicars? Hardly matters of doctrinal gravitas.
Like I say, it's no huge issue for me - if I had the practical choice, I'd probably err on the side of caution and go against. In the Episcopal Church in Scotland the General Synod has already agreed to the principle of women bishops, although none have yet been ordained.

But equally I realise that plenty of people do care - a great deal in fact - and that concerns me.
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L i b
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#46
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#46
(Original post by 2026)
We lay people do not possess the standing to discuss such an issue.
Well, ignorance has never stopped debate on TSR before, why start now?
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tucker672
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#47
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#47
I am not sexist but NO.

It is entirely up to the religion as to what to let women do. If they let Women become bishops then respect that if they don't than we still have to respect that.
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trefusis128
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#48
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#48
(Original post by tucker672)
I am not sexist but NO.

It is entirely up to the religion as to what to let women do. If they let Women become bishops then respect that if they don't than we still have to respect that.
Nice political answer Grant, Im proud
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2026
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#49
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#49
(Original post by L i b)
I don't know how much less secular you could realistically expect Britain to be: we require regular Christian practice in our state schools, we have Prayers before every sitting of the Houses of Parliament, our Queen is Crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury. The next step I imagine would be to march civil servants to the full eight prayers of the Daily Office.
I think it's mainly tradition, rather than substance to be honest. Similar to the monarchy and etc. However, I agree that reform is needed in this area. The repel of the so-called blasphemy law, for example, was a welcome step.
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L i b
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#50
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(Original post by anon53)
Surely the fact that everyone should be treated equally is obvious.
Well, the concept is that we are all to become 'one in Jesus Christ' - but that does by no means indicate that gender differences are non-existent at the moment. To me it seems rather obvious that there is an extended mass of scripture indicating that men and women have quite different roles - that does not make them less equal in terms of salvation.
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electriic_ink
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#51
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(Original post by 2026)
You do realise that the Church of England is a religious institution and not a political party?
:p:

Yeah, but no-one's going to take up their religion if they're associated with sexism and being old-fashioned. Imagine if the Church reverted all their practices to how they were 2,000yrs ago - there would be outcry.

Religion and politics aren't massively different from each other - they both govern how people should live their lives.

edit: In fact, the only difference between religion and politics that I can think of is that the former revolves around the idea of a deity and the latter around the people.
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L i b
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#52
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#52
(Original post by 2026)
I think it's mainly tradition, rather than substance to be honest. Similar to the monarchy and etc. However, I agree that reform is needed in this area. The repel of the so-called blasphemy law, for example, was a welcome step.
You're quite right - if we were to club together on TSR with no previous knowledge of the shape of Britain's political culture and try to whack out a new constitution for the UK, it would probably be secular... and quite probably a Republic too. Indeed, it is impossible to invent monarchies out of nowhere these days, they are defined by tradition: anything less is simply a dictator in a funny hat.

To me, however, that does not lessen the status of the UK's non-secular (and indeed monarchical) tradition.
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trefusis128
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#53
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#53
The church does teach equality. Its just teaches that men are more equal than women... :P
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L i b
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#54
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(Original post by electriic_ink)
Yeah, but no-one's going to take up their religion if they're associated with sexism and being old-fashioned. Imagine if the Church reverted all their practices to how they were 2,000yrs ago - there would be outcry.
Well, the Church of England didn't exist 2,000 years ago. Revert them back to the times of Henry VIII and I imagine you'd probably get those who had disappeared off to the Roman Catholic church when the C of E decided to ordain women priests back.

As for sexism - gender exclusion hasn't done the church any harm until now, and indeed the church which is rather more firm on this issue - the Roman Catholic Church - seems to get buy just fine.

I've actually noticed from a few Roman Catholics that 'old fashioned' now refers to the 60s and 70s modernists within the Church who tried diluting their faith in order to be popular or appeal to transient fashions. These old fashioned views are now on the way out - and I imagine the Catholics will be left with a church rather more comfortable with tradition.

Alas, the C of E is led by a bearded, 1960s, sandal-wearing, Welsh Druid.*


(*Kindly note this is to be taken with a pinch of salt, I don't actively dislike Ol' Rowan.)
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UGeNe
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#55
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#55
(Original post by trefusis128)
The church does teach equality. Its just teaches that men are more equal than women... :P
It's simple.
Men have a penis.
Premise=Conclusion
Done.
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anon53
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#56
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#56
I just wonder how the Church expects to have enough peopler to enter for ministry if they continue to live like we're in the Middle Ages!
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L i b
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#57
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(Original post by anon53)
I just wonder how the Church expects to have enough peopler to enter for ministry if they continue to live like we're in the Middle Ages!
In terms of Faith, we are in exactly the same situation as we were in the Middle Ages. God does not change with the fashions.

If you're asking how the Church can survive without instituting populist reforms, then I point you in the direction of the Roman Catholic and Islamic faiths, both of which are growing and often very traditionalist.

At this rate, it seems that if such reforms are instituted, there won't be a Church of England to defend for very long.
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The Epicurean
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#58
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Yes, im a catholic but this male only thing, priests, bishops whatever just doesn't feel right. No reason they come up with can change my opinion because they are stupid reasons for sexism and the church is supposed to be fair and just?
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pooh_bear7
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#59
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#59
Isn't this what religion is about anyway? It's not supposed to be about political correctness...it's about a set of organised rules which everyone is supposed to follow through. So if the bible says men are superior to women, then shouldn't that be accepted instead of challenged? If you disagree with it, then ultimately, you're not the religious person you thought you were. Personally this is the reason why I don't follow a religion. It's full of things like this!
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L i b
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#60
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(Original post by zedbrar)
No reason they come up with can change my opinion because they are stupid reasons for sexism
:rolleyes:

and the church is supposed to be fair and just?
Nope, God is supposed to be fair and just - and I rather think he has a better grasp of fairness and justice than you or I do.
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