intellectual snobbery? Watch

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butterfly_girl_5
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#41
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#41
(Original post by onthejubileeline)

Us normal mortal folks will just be mean to you, sorry.
this is exactly what I was talking about- I dont want to see myself as 'an academic' who is above everyone else- If I cant be friends with normal people its my loss and my fault
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Tom4510
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#42
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I always think the slightly.. err.. less minded people try to make themselves seem more intelligent than they actually are by using excessively long and over complicated words.

hmm
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Arrogant Git
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#43
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#43
Society generally sees degrees as a tool to get a job. Under no circumstances should you be studying because you enjoy learning. Subjects such as engineering, physics and maths are only acceptable if you know exactly what you want to do afterwards. If you do English, it's important to emphasise the wild lifestyle you lead or your acting in plays so that no-one suspects you actually enjoy the subject.

But at least if you do english and talk about your subject enthusiatically, people just think your an elitist ******. If you do maths and talk about your subject like that, people think you're aspergic or something. I find it best to lie. I do media studies. At Girton Community College.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#44
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(Original post by kevster)
lol the guardian, my guess was correct then. Nowadays it really is the only decent paper, its comment and debate section is fabulous.

So, without trying to read all the comments are you trying to say that you like trying to be intellectual and your friends don't. Whats the crux of the issue without going into too much depth.
Im not really trying to say anything- I want people to tell me what they think it is that means people create this division between 'academic' and not.
also- If people are bored by critical theory- why is it then not ok to say their not interested in academic thought (I dont have a better term for it)

what prompted this was- I was talking to my friend Hannah about another friend who really is a genius- John, me and John always have academic discussions about literature, but I find I cant with Hannah, mainly because she doesnt listen to me- and she says she finds books like Austen's Emma boring without saying why- which gives me the impression she didnt really consider the book and form a well-thought opinion, just decided it was crap because it doesnt have an exciting plot- if she doesnt want to consciously think about it, just doesnt like it- fair enough- but when I said I like John because he's the only person I know who's academic she looked rather abashed and said 'well I like books'. and also said one of her friends whos very clever and considered academic makes her feel like shes not clever enough to be in his presence- I worry I make her feel a bit like that and I dont want to ever make other people feel stupid or uncomfortable or intimidate them- I know I do that a bit already- partly not my fault- but Id be a bad person and a bad friend if I just didnt think about how I come across/ whether im clever and interesting or just pretencious-when I clear do have a problem with being arrogant or pretencious- not to mention a crap friend
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Duck and Cover
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#45
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Well doing literature for the degree that I'm doing, I have to read a lot of books and a lot of books about books...but people don't bother me about it because I don't bother them about it - I don't purposefully rub it in people's faces that I'm reading books on critical theory or whatever it is!
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Comp_Genius
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#46
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#46
What's wrong with intellectual snobbery and academic frippery? If inferior minds don't understand, then they shouldn't be allowed to comment on academia.
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shootbangfire
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#47
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(Original post by Loser222)
I bet your accused of it. You use too many long words and people prefer short ones. "intellectual" should be "smart" , "literature" should be "books"
I think those two are fine. intertextuality is pushing it.
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evil groove
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#48
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#48
:hmmm: What is your IQ, then, O.P.?
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Charlybob
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#49
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#49
(Original post by nexttime)
if you're intellectual end like to use long words, necessarily or otherwise, then that is who you are, and you shouldn't have to be sorry for it. clearly, don't go out of your way to confuse, but otherwise...

'dumming down' what you say would surely just be patronising (or should i say, being simple so that you can understand it...). i think that would go down far worse.
While I'll agree there's nothing wrong with using longer words if that's who you are, and you shouldn't have to dumb your sentences down to appease people, that does only work to a certain extent, which I think may be what the guy you quoted was trying to say.

There's nothing wrong with having your preferences on how to speak, but like he said, there's some things no-one actually uses in normal conversation, that only appear when someone is trying to sound smart or in a formal discussion.
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Master Polhem
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#50
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(Original post by chad_ch)
if you were truly clever you'd be able to get your points across without using long words and complex syntax.
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!! That's what it is! Darn I wish Shakespeare would have thought about that... stupid old man.
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Lidka
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#51
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(Original post by Master Polhem)
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!! That's what it is! Darn I wish Shakespeare would have thought about that... stupid old man.
He was not stupid, nor was he, for most of his life, an old man. :mad: :p:


(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
Does anyone find they are accused of this/worry they are guilty of this/find this widespread in the 'oxbridge' culture?
No, no, yes. There's a lot of it at universities, not just Oxford/Cambridge. Steer clear of it. Just because your supervisors practise it doesn't mean it's good.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#52
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#52
(Original post by shootbangfire)
I think those two are fine. intertextuality is pushing it.
why is it 'pushing it' I shouldnt talk to people about something regardless of what words I used, if Im boring them or its just not something that interests them

I find I enjoy literature more when im familiar with words and concepts like intertexuality- if i genuinely want to use the word because im interested in intertextuality in a text and I dont persist in talking about it to people who dont give a f *** whats wrong with it?
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butterfly_girl_5
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#53
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#53
(Original post by evil groove)
:hmmm: What is your IQ, then, O.P.?
I dont know. a little above average probably. Im always crap at those tests because I dont have the kind of mind thats good at maths or logic
I dont really think its relevant in literature
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Master Polhem
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#54
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(Original post by Lidka)
He was not stupid, nor was he, for most of his life, an old man. :mad: :p:
Because I was not using sarcasm at all... (LOOK THERE I GO AGAIN! A self pertaining loop, a paradox perhaps?)
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madima
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#55
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
Does anyone find they are accused of this/worry they are guilty of this/find this widespread in the 'oxbridge' culture?

I notice with a lot of my friends that even though we share a genuine interest in reading books & literature, when I talk about what I would call 'academic' like using words like intertextuality or narrative structure to talk about a book I like they zone out. and people think im a geek for liking reading books about critical theory

thats fine with me, but what I find difficult is how its a no-go area to say 'youre not interested in academic thinking or looking at or reading literature in an academic way.' even though a lot of people I talk to are dismissive of books or poetry all together because they assume theyre not clever enough or they accuse it of not having an exciting plot/not being written in a way they can understand. my experience of a lot of people my age (18) and young people is they dont try to understand this phenomenon called 'academia' but then form a rather hostile attitude to 'academics' and talk about 'clever' and 'not clever' people in terms of 'us' and 'them'

I have to say, having grown up in oxford I do find something rather self satisfied in academics and self-congratulatoriness (if thats a word) w regards to peoples own intelligence or academic achievement. I worry that I am becoming prone to this sort of snobbery as Ive developped my intellectual abilities- I want to be interested in academia and using critical awareness when reading for its own sake, not to feel selg-important

what do people think?
firstly, IT'S A ****ING GOD DAMN BOOK. secondly, if you are truly intellectual then you should recognise that communication plays an important role in your situation. long, unnecessary words are, well... unnecessary. talk in a language that we can understand; tell us something we all agree on and enjoy instead of singling yourself out like that.

english students need better beatings from chavs these days...
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butterfly_girl_5
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#56
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#56
just to clarify- I think some people are saying I shove my intellect in peoples faces because they thought I meant I like using 'clever words'

my point is I dont, because if I do ever talk about 'academic' things- just because im interested, I quickly stop because I notice people yawning and going cross eyed- and I dont want to bore them.

so what Im asking is- if I have that experience, I think that means that they are just not really into that kind of thing- which is fine- but what irritates me is that some people seem to want to have it both ways- they react as I said, but then if I insinuate that they are not interested in academia and I am, they feel hurt or feel made to feel stupid or say they are.
do you think that im right to say theyre not interested? since there isnt anything wrong with that- or is the question of 'interest in academia' too much tied up in the fact you do need to be clever to have it/ or that I or academics generally make people feel stupid and excluded.

thankyou to all who answered- but saying things like 'the fact of the matter is, a lot of oxbridge academics are arrogant'- can you say why/what made you think that?
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Bornstubborn
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#57
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If it makes you feel any better; i don't think that highly of academics in pretentious subjects like English.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#58
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#58
(Original post by madima)
firstly, IT'S A ****ING GOD DAMN BOOK. secondly, if you are truly intellectual then you should recognise that communication plays an important role in your situation. long, unnecessary words are, well... unnecessary. talk in a language that we can understand; tell us something we all agree on and enjoy instead of singling yourself out like that.

english students need better beatings from chavs these days...
sorry- what do you mean- its a god damn book?? what book?
why are all intellectual words unecessary? I always found writing english essays frustrating because I couldnt communicate what I wanted to say, and now I know words like anaphora (which I looked up in a dictionary and leart- its not hard) I enjoy english a lot more- I actually think those words are very necessary- the reason they exist is to describe something that has an effect on people- so I disagree, I think people would communicate much better about talking about books they like if people used those 'long words'

saying that- people wont- which brings me right back to what im trying to say- its fine for people not to want to talk about high-brow stuff- its their choice- but why do they then say 'im interested in academia.'
If I cant talk to them about high-brow academic things using words I like using- because it genuinely interested me, and because the language/words I use I use to say exactly what I think and feel - surely that means theyre not interested in that?
so why do they object to me talking about it as something Im interested in and theyre not?
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madima
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(Original post by butterfly_girl_5)
sorry- what do you mean- its a god damn book?? what book?
why are all intellectual words unecessary? I always found writing english essays frustrating because I couldnt communicate what I wanted to say, and now I know words like anaphora (which I looked up in a dictionary and leart- its not hard) I enjoy english a lot more- I actually think those words are very necessary- the reason they exist is to describe something that has an effect on people- so I disagree, I think people would communicate much better about talking about books they like if people used those 'long words'

saying that- people wont- which brings me right back to what im trying to say- its fine for people not to want to talk about high-brow stuff- its their choice- but why do they then say 'im interested in academia.'
If I cant talk to them about high-brow academic things using words I like using- because it genuinely interested me, and because the language/words I use I use to say exactly what I think and feel - surely that means theyre not interested in that?
so why do they object to me talking about it as something Im interested in and theyre not?
look, little girl... you like using words others don't understand. i wouldn't be surprised if all your friends carried mini dictionaries in their back pockets.
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butterfly_girl_5
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#60
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(Original post by Bornstubborn)
If it makes you feel any better; i don't think that highly of academics in pretentious subjects like English.
not meaning to be rude- but why would that make me feel better?
I dont agree with you that english literature as a subject is itself pretencious- its just susceptible to being interpreted in a really empty or pretencious way- and clever people who arent necessarily interesting or perceptive learn that they can bull***t it and get good grades
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