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Prudy
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#41
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#41
(Original post by hnm)
No, she only sent me a message as "Enquiry from Amazon Customer".
Well, then that is written notification and as such you have to refund her - the 7 day cooling off period I mentioned. Just to show I'm not making it up:

http://www.northlan.gov.uk/living+he...ons.html#info6

Cancellation Rights, or the Cooling Off" Period

The Distance Selling Regulations provide you with the right to cancel an order within seven working days. If you decide to cancel, then you should put this in writing, either by letter (proof of posting or recorded delivery is advisable) or you can fax or email. A telephone call is not sufficient unless you and the Trader have agreed beforehand.

The time limits are:-

* For goods – seven working days after the day on which the goods are received.
* For services – seven working days after the day on which the you agreed to go ahead with the agreement.

Failure by the trader to tell you about your cancellation rights can result in the cooling off period being longer, but seek advice on this.

You must take care of the goods whilst they are in your possession, and either return them or make them available for collection by the seller. You may be liable for the cost of collecting the goods or the return postage – unless the goods were faulty in the first place.

If you decide to cancel and return the goods within these time limits, you are entitled to expect to have your money refunded within 30 days. Also, if the seller had arranged a credit or hire purchase agreement for you, this should be cancelled automatically and any deposits returned top you.
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hnm
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#42
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#42
(Original post by kam_007)
dude you should know if there were ripped out pages in the book. if you didn't do you didn't do it.

Print out a copy of the highway code and send it to them??!!

Depends on the refund agreement, i think you should tell them they are stingy SOB's, ask for proff the book came in that condition, and create another account on amazon.
haha that's an idea...

I said 99% sure, because there is a very small chance that Waterstones sold me the book with pages missing, but even THAT is very very unlikely.
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hnm
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Prudy)
Well, then that is written notification and as such you have to refund her - the 7 day cooling off period I mentioned. Just to show I'm not making it up:

http://www.northlan.gov.uk/living+he...ons.html#info6

Cancellation Rights, or the Cooling Off" Period

The Distance Selling Regulations provide you with the right to cancel an order within seven working days. If you decide to cancel, then you should put this in writing, either by letter (proof of posting or recorded delivery is advisable) or you can fax or email. A telephone call is not sufficient unless you and the Trader have agreed beforehand.

The time limits are:-

* For goods – seven working days after the day on which the goods are received.
* For services – seven working days after the day on which the you agreed to go ahead with the agreement.

Failure by the trader to tell you about your cancellation rights can result in the cooling off period being longer, but seek advice on this.

You must take care of the goods whilst they are in your possession, and either return them or make them available for collection by the seller. You may be liable for the cost of collecting the goods or the return postage – unless the goods were faulty in the first place.

If you decide to cancel and return the goods within these time limits, you are entitled to expect to have your money refunded within 30 days. Also, if the seller had arranged a credit or hire purchase agreement for you, this should be cancelled automatically and any deposits returned top you.

The bit I highlighted... is that not relevant here?

Btw just as a general query, why do some Ebay members have no refund policies? Is that legal?
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Celifein
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#44
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#44
I suspect she either discovered she could view it online for free or got it cheaper elsewhere, now she wants her dough back. If she has defaced your book just so she can get a refund she's a first-class *****, but I don't think you can use that as a reason not to refund her.

Having said that, it's possible that the book you sent her was a misprint. I once had to request a new textbook from the Open Uni because the copy they send me had several pages missing.
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hnm
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Celifein)
I suspect she either discovered she could view it online for free or got it cheaper elsewhere, now she wants her dough back. If she has defaced your book just so she can get a refund she's a first-class *****, but I don't think you can use that as a reason not to refund her.
Please tell me this isn't true.

Why don't everyone go around buying things, stealing bits from them and then getting a refund? There must be a law against that.
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Juno
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#46
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#46
(Original post by hnm)
The bit I highlighted... is that not relevant here?

Btw just as a general query, why do some Ebay members have no refund policies? Is that legal?
The Distance Selling Regulations (as posted above) only apply to businesses. Thus, small sellers on Ebay who are not businesses do not need a refund policy. If you were selling on Ebay then you wouldn't either.

However, Amazon have their own refund policy. they state that all sellers must offer a 30-day refund policy for any reason. Since you sold through Amazon you agreed to these terms, and thus you have to refund.

You would have to prove that it wasn't faulty when you packed it to be able to claim that the buyer did it. And even then, Amazon would probably take the buyer's side. You might be able to claim from the Royal Mail for damage, but you'd need to be slightly inventive with your claim. Did you post it at a post office and get a Certificate of Posting?
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Prudy
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#47
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#47
(Original post by hnm)
The bit I highlighted... is that not relevant here?

Btw just as a general query, why do some Ebay members have no refund policies? Is that legal?
You have no evidence that they haven't taken care of the book. On the balance of probabilities she looks like she has.

It is different on ebay. The cooling off period doesn't cover internet auctions. However all people have statutory rights which noone can exempt. So for ebay members to 'have no refund policy' is of no great consequence.

Look, ultimately this is of no great consequence - if you refuse to refund her, I very much doubt you will be taken to court, however she is entitled to that refund.
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Celifein
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#48
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#48
Ask her if the pages have been torn out or if the book simply seems to skip pages (with no obvious space in the spine where the pages should be). If it's the latter, it's a misprint and you should be able to get a refund from Waterstones (assuming they are willing to refund w/out a receipt--I don't know what their returns policy is like).
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Juno
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Prudy)
Look, ultimately this is of no great consequence - if you refuse to refund her, I very much doubt you will be taken to court, however she is entitled to that refund.
The buyer would probably go to Amazon, and then get a refund through their AtoZ programme. Amazon wouldn't be too happy about this, and if a seller gets too many AtoZ claims against them they can be suspended.

Amazon also take these things a lot more seriously than Ebay, so it's usually not possible to get reinstated, and it is hard to fool them.
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hnm
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Juno)
The Distance Selling Regulations (as posted above) only apply to businesses. Thus, small sellers on Ebay who are not businesses do not need a refund policy. If you were selling on Ebay then you wouldn't either.

However, Amazon have their own refund policy. they state that all sellers must offer a 30-day refund policy for any reason. Since you sold through Amazon you agreed to these terms, and thus you have to refund.

You would have to prove that it wasn't faulty when you packed it to be able to claim that the buyer did it. And even then, Amazon would probably take the buyer's side. You might be able to claim from the Royal Mail for damage, but you'd need to be slightly inventive with your claim. Did you post it at a post office and get a Certificate of Posting?
Yes I have a certificate of posting. Thanks for the information about Ebay.
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tami
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#51
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#51
that's a lot of pages to be ripped out. wouldn't you have noticed if the book had been damaged like that? or does the book have some kind of a spiraled spine so that you can easily remove pages? you could ask them to clarify -- were the pages ripped out or is it a printing fault?

you have no real choice but to ask for the book to be returned in the condition that it was received as others have said. say that on receipt you will give them a prompt refund. apologise profusely and say you had no idea that there were missing pages. then say in the meantime it is available online, sorry about the inconvenience etc. You shouldn't start asking them to prove things or take pictures. they are totally within their rights to request a refund.

when the book arrives then assess the situation. if the book is clearly not in the original condition then you should refuse the refund. if, as far as you can tell, it is in the original condition you must give them a refund. if you're simply not sure, you should give them a refund. next time you send out a book you will be more careful to check the condition that it's in. this time you will have to give them the benefit of the doubt and if you want you can take it up with waterstones as someone could have ripped out the pages in the bookshop.

if you are new to selling books, getting negative rep is not a good way to start and you should avoid it as much as possible. always be polite and helpful in your emails and deal with such requests promptly even if you're not sure what's going on. i'm not saying that you should be a pushover but be nice.

you can't say you have no refund policy because you have to abide by amazon's terms and conditions.

good luck. don't worry too much about it. just chalk it up to experience.
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Prudy
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Juno)
The buyer would probably go to Amazon, and then get a refund through their AtoZ programme. Amazon wouldn't be too happy about this, and if a seller gets too many AtoZ claims against them they can be suspended.

Amazon also take these things a lot more seriously than Ebay, so it's usually not possible to get reinstated, and it is hard to fool them.
Still, of no great consequence.

OP: having just read the full text of the The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations, you may be exempted by S.3(1) if you don't regularly sell on Amazon. (Insofar as the The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations don't apply to you.)

However, if there are rules set by Amazon, (what Juno said) then you will need to look at them.

That, and you still have a duty to supply the goods fit for purpose.
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hnm
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#53
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#53
I guess I will refund them then and try and get a refund from Waterstones like Prudy said at the beginning. Hopefully they'll accept it without a receipt.
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hnm
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#54
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#54
I will get them to send me the book and if there are pages ripped out, I will be very pissed off because she is just taking advantage.

If it's a misprint then I'll definitely refund them, but like I said, when I used the book for my test, I didn't notice any missing pages.
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Prudy
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#55
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#55
(Original post by hnm)
I will get them to send me the book and if there are pages ripped out, I will be very pissed off because she is just taking advantage.

If it's a misprint then I'll definitely refund them, but like I said, when I used the book for my test, I didn't notice any missing pages.
How did you pay for the book at Waterstones? Are there any Waterstones markings on the book?
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hnm
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#56
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#56
Am I entitled to give her a refund if all she wants is the missing pages? Could I give her the online link?
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hnm
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Prudy)
How did you pay for the book at Waterstones? Are there any Waterstones markings on the book?
I paid with cash, and I don't think there were any Waterstones markings.
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Prudy
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#58
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#58
(Original post by hnm)
I paid with cash, and I don't think there were any Waterstones markings.
Well, it will be difficult but still, go there and don't take no for an answer. Usually they will acquiesce
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hnm
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#59
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#59
Do I have to refund them the postage costs? I am looking on the site and I can't find information about it. Thank you everyone greatly for your advice and help.
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JoMo1
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#60
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#60
I don't believe you do have to refund postage costs, the postage cost is not the item. They bought the item, and then it was shipped to them, there was no problem with the postage and so they are not entitled to a refund from the postal service,and certainly not you.
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