The Great injustices of the American medical system Watch

T kay
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#41
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#41
(Original post by cucumber sandwich)
why are you talking about democracy? It's not like Americans can't vote, or what do you mean? they vote for what they want
Sorry I should have been clearer, I meant that people vote for what they think is fair, what they have been promised yet this is never the case.
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T kay
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#42
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#42
(Original post by ffrann)
Not as bad as any of the cases here, but:

Me and my brother were both born in America. My mother had health insurance for it (although it was a lot as I was a 'pre-existing condition'). When I was born everything went fine. When my brother was born, the insurance company had a rule that you had to inform them when you went into hospital, so when my mother went into labour she called to say so. However, the insurance company refused to pay my brother's part of the hospital bill because, although they'd been informed that my mum was going into hospital, they had not been informed that my brother was going into hospital. My parents did try to protest that this probably could have been inferred, but they ended up having to pay several thousand dollars.
That's massively unfair.
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T kay
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#43
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#43
(Original post by curryADD)
I would love to see an American NHS. If you accepted that post as my agreement with the system you are sadly mistaken. If you think that my thanking God for the fact that I have the money means I am unconcerned with the uninsured, you're mistaken. My post was meant to show people with no direct experience with HMO's how bad it is even if you have money. My point is that the system sucks for everyone, even the rich.
I certainly didn't think that and I'm sorry if that's what I implied. I sensed from your first post here that you shared a distaste to say the least at the health system in the States.

I was saying that you are fortunate that you are able to pay any medical bills they throw at you. I totally agree, whether rich or poor, the system is an unjust sham. The whole health system is treated like a business, profit motive far exceeds the needs of the people.
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#44
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#44
(Original post by T kay)
Not being granted free health care isn't a violation of human rights as such, I agree. But when a sick person comes to the hospital and you refuse them healthcare because they are uninsured is prolonging suffering and in many many cases allows death, that is a violation of human rights.
Only private hospitals deny emergency care - and even then, they can't transfer you to a public/county hospital until you're stabilized, so they're obliged to provide a minimum level of treatment. I think you're dramatizing based on a movie.
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curryADD
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#45
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(Original post by T kay)
I certainly didn't think that and I'm sorry if that's what I implied. I sensed from your first post here that you shared a distaste to say the least at the health system in the States.

I was saying that you are fortunate that you are able to pay any medical bills they throw at you. I totally agree, whether rich or poor, the system is an unjust sham. The whole health system is treated like a business, profit motive far exceeds the needs of the people.
I'm sorry that I possibly inferred more insult than was there. :o:

I am fortunate indeed to have enough money to pay it, but ultimately am more fortunate to have married a canadian...so that at least what I pay with for my taxes actually helps me....and my neighbor down the street with cancer, too.
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#46
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#46
(Original post by T kay)
There was quite an uproar about the whole matter actually.
"uproar" based on rumor and judicial action based on concrete evidence are two separate things.
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curryADD
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#47
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(Original post by Kettensägenmassaker)
Only private hospitals deny emergency care - and even then, they can't transfer you to a public/county hospital until you're stabilized, so they're obliged to provide a minimum level of treatment. I think you're dramatizing based on a movie.
Only last summer there was a woman who died of neglect in an emergency room because she didn't have health care. It's not dramatization at all....when one of my friends had alcohol poisoning they wouldn't even pump his stomach until I signed something for him that stated he would be able to pay for whatever treatment they gave. As you seem to be a supporter of our system currently, why are you? Do you pay for your own medical insurance? Do you make your own appointments etc?
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Resok)
The government's duty is not only to protect and defend their citizens. But to also take care of them, and make their lives better.
This is where the political climate fundamentally differs in the United States from most places abroad. Americans are skeptics of government and (at least in theory) want government to intrude as little as possible into private lives - including healthcare and "making lives better."
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T kay
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Kettensägenmassaker)
Only private hospitals deny emergency care - and even then, they can't transfer you to a public/county hospital until you're stabilized, so they're obliged to provide a minimum level of treatment. I think you're dramatizing based on a movie.
I knew that and I didn't say nor imply otherwise. My point is that healthcare should be free, entirely free. The USA remains the only nation in the West that doesn't allow free universal health care, the whole system is inefficient and a scandal.
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Bagration
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#50
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#50
(Original post by T kay)
Full scale privatisation of the American health system has got to be one of the biggest political crimes in history.
The American health system is not "fully privatised." the U.S. Government spends more on healthcare than we do. Their healthcare system is riddled with licensing and regulatory legislation that has crushed any hope of free and private enterprise in that country.

GTG now: http://www.cato.org/healthcare/ some evidence before I go.
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T kay
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#51
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(Original post by curryADD)
Only last summer there was a woman who died of neglect in an emergency room because she didn't have health care. It's not dramatization at all....when one of my friends had alcohol poisoning they wouldn't even pump his stomach until I signed something for him that stated he would be able to pay for whatever treatment they gave. As you seem to be a supporter of our system currently, why are you? Do you pay for your own medical insurance? Do you make your own appointments etc?
And they are many more examples in my original post, which Kettensägenmassaker seems to have forgotten.
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#52
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(Original post by curryADD)
As you seem to be a supporter of our system currently, why are you? Do you pay for your own medical insurance? Do you make your own appointments etc?
I support it because I don't think that socialized healthcare is a better alternative. I think it breeds systematic inefficiencies and obligates citizens to fund treatment of others whether they want to or not.

I do in fact pay for my own medical insurance. I'm able to choose my own doctor (one who treated my mother and so is aware of my extensive family medical history), and when I have a problem I go to an urgent care clinic or the hospital.
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curryADD
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#53
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(Original post by T kay)
And they are many more examples in my original post, which Kettensägenmassaker seems to have forgotten.
sorry, those questions were to her...not you!
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T kay
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#54
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(Original post by Bagration)
The American health system is not "fully privatised." the U.S. Government spends more on healthcare than we do. Their healthcare system is riddled with licensing and regulatory legislation that has crushed any hope of free and private enterprise in that country.

GTG now: http://www.cato.org/healthcare/ some evidence before I go.
I've got to go to, had a quick look at the link and it's hardly evidence.
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#55
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(Original post by T kay)
I knew that and I didn't say nor imply otherwise. My point is that healthcare should be free, entirely free. The USA remains the only nation in the West that doesn't allow free universal health care, the whole system is inefficient and a scandal.
In terms of efficiency, I'll be damned if it's less efficient than government funded healthcare systems. I'd like to see proof of such a claim.

And furthmore, you did imply that Americans can't get treatment without either insurance or money up front - which is inaccurate, at minimum.

There's no such thing as "free" healthcare. All healthcare has a price, it's just a matter of who picks up the tab.
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T kay
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#56
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#56
(Original post by curryADD)
sorry, those questions were to her...not you!
Yes I know, but she said I was over-dramatizing, so I was reminding her of the examples I gave in my original post, to build on the one's you just gave.
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Kettensägenmassaker
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#57
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#57
(Original post by T kay)
And they are many more examples in my original post, which Kettensägenmassaker seems to have forgotten.
You have provided only hearsay and a movie produced by an inflammatory activist. I have seen no evidence of any of your claims, and the burden of proof is upon you.
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curryADD
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#58
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(Original post by Kettensägenmassaker)
I support it because I don't think that socialized healthcare is a better alternative. I think it breeds systematic inefficiencies and obligates citizens to fund treatment of others whether they want to or not.

I do in fact pay for my own medical insurance. I'm able to choose my own doctor (one who treated my mother and so is aware of my extensive family medical history), and when I have a problem I go to an urgent care clinic or the hospital.
Woah, two incredibly different sentiments in one statement! The reality is, inefficiencies aren't bred out by the market system as we know it because people don't really get much of a choice when it comes to providers. As for your second assertion, that you don't want to give anyone a free ride, you already are. When hospitals don't get any money from patients they have treated, they raise prices on everyone else who can. All this does is further inflate costs while lowering the level of care uninsured can expect, WHILE increasing their numbers.

Any doctor has the ability to access your family history through both your charts and your mother. Your doctor doesn't remember everything from your history, he uses charts. Just like any other doctor can use charts. Shocking, that more than one person knows how to read!
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T kay
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Kettensägenmassaker)
I support it because I don't think that socialized healthcare is a better alternative. I think it breeds systematic inefficiencies and obligates citizens to fund treatment of others whether they want to or not.

I do in fact pay for my own medical insurance. I'm able to choose my own doctor (one who treated my mother and so is aware of my extensive family medical history), and when I have a problem I go to an urgent care clinic or the hospital.
Yet socialised health systems have the best ratings in terms of healthcare in the world and USA lies a lowly 37th, before the likes of Slovenia.
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curryADD
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#60
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(Original post by Kettensägenmassaker)
You have provided only hearsay and a movie produced by an inflammatory activist. I have seen no evidence of any of your claims, and the burden of proof is upon you.
Actually, as this is a UK site it's upon you. By writing that what he says is false, you are committing libel. Under UK law, the person committing libel is under the burden of evidence, not the other way around.
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