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Marijuana Decriminalisation - Your opinion watch

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    (Original post by Bagration)
    My morals lie in

    Do you even read my posts on this thread? I am pro-legalisation. This is not a choice between Government ownership and black market ownership. I will use the analogy I used in my other post which you presumably didn't read:

    Do you find glass and silicone in cigarettes? No. I switch between four different brands of cigarettes, I avoid some completely, I do this 1.) because of trial and error 2.) because companies and brands have reputation and 3.) because of price.

    I guarantee you that Marlboro or Lucky Strike are better quality than the single, state monopoly cigarettes produced in Vietnam. If that wasn't the case then the black market for cigarettes wouldn't exist in Vietnam.


    My morals lie in that it is wrong for A to take from B to give to C. Government ownership of a corporation requires taxpayer funding. It is inherently wrong. But now we are moving onto my personal politics rather than the actual topic...
    Fair enough, must of got the wrong end of the stick, and talking of personnel politics I'm getting schooled on how I laid out my thread.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Well yeah. I cover command economics and their failures in sufficient detail here, if the OP is interested in reading. Presumably he's not; the vast majority of pro-legalisation types are not interested in economics, they just want to smoke some weed, which is fair enough. I sympathise.
    This is part of the problem i've been facing with the SSDP. They campaign relentlessly for legalisation but never provide any answers on how it is to be done. When you don't think how it is to be done successfully how can you shout your viewpoint from the rooftops? It's like drawing a flying car on a piece of paper and expecting an investor to buy into it despite you having no idea how such a vehicle would operate.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    This is part of the problem i've been facing with the SSDP. They campaign relentlessly for legalisation but never provide any answers on how it is to be done. When you don't think how it is to be done successfully how can you shout your viewpoint from the rooftops? It's like drawing a flying car on a piece of paper and expecting an investor to buy into it despite you having no idea how such a vehicle would operate.
    Mhm. Cannibis is less addictive and less damaging than cigarettes, I think they may as well just apply the same laws to the things and be done with it.
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    As an extremely liberal, borderline libertarian I very much support the legalisation of cannabis. Although I usually subscribe to the idea that people should be able to do whatever they want, providing it doesn't harm anyone else, I am not in favour of legalising harder drugs, such as Cocaine and Heroin. To me, the sheer amount of street crime that is committed by desperate addicts due to the addictive nature of these drugs is makes it difficult for me to make a case for their legalisation alongside cannabis.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Mhm. Cannibis is less addictive and less damaging than cigarettes, I think they may as well just apply the same laws to the things and be done with it.
    Agree, although MJ isn't addictive at all, only people with addictive personalities and so on.
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    (Original post by Officer Dibble)
    As an extremely liberal, borderline libertarian I very much support the legalisation of cannabis. Although I usually subscribe to the idea that people should be able to do whatever they want, providing it doesn't harm anyone else, I am not in favour of legalising harder drugs, such as Cocaine and Heroin. To me, the sheer amount of street crime that is committed by desperate addicts due to the addictive nature of these drugs is makes it difficult for me to make a case for their legalisation alongside cannabis.

    I agree with you, I'm not for the legalisation of harder drugs because they are very harmful, and cannabis is sketchy for the government but legalising meth etc they would be laughed at and criticised by so many.
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    Ryan_J_W, that is a fantastic summary of the main for arguments for why Marijuana prohibition is stupid.

    I think the most important thing about why legalisation is such a great idea is the fact that if it was taxed and legalised, there would also be a form of quality control instigated.

    Smoking the **** you pick up from a dealer is much more hazardous than if it were professionally and reliably grown in a controlled and stable environment. Not only would there be a lot of money coming in from taxes, but people would be smoking a much less damaging and tampered product.

    There's not really much more to say because of such a great opening post.

    Though it unfortunately seems that there are two main problems stopping legalisation.

    Firstly, a lot of western countries have a habit of mimicking much of the US' politics. Basically, it's very probable that Marijuana will only be legal here when it is legal in the US.

    The other problem is the typical politician demographic. Most of them are out of touch with modern culture and are willfully ignorant to the majority of people's opinions (this is obvious in a country like Australia). Until our politicians retire and are replaced with today's young people, it seems unlikely that they'll ever be for the legalisation of pot.

    It'll be a great day when it finally does become legalised, atleast it seems likely that pot WILL become legal at some point.

    What i'd like (atleast) would be for the legalisation of the cultivation of pot. If it's going to be illegal to sell pot, atleast make it legal so people can legally cultivate their own. I cannot for the life of me find a reason as to why I shouldn't be allowed to grow and smoke my own pot.
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    (Original post by Phalanx)
    Ryan_J_W, that is a fantastic summary of the main for arguments for why Marijuana prohibition is stupid.

    I think the most important thing about why legalisation is such a great idea is the fact that if it was taxed and legalised, there would also be a form of quality control instigated.

    Smoking the **** you pick up from a dealer is much more hazardous than if it were professionally and reliably grown in a controlled and stable environment. Not only would there be a lot of money coming in from taxes, but people would be smoking a much less damaging and tampered product.

    There's not really much more to say because of such a great opening post.

    Though it unfortunately seems that there are two main problems stopping legalisation.

    Firstly, a lot of western countries have a habit of mimicking much of the US' politics. Basically, it's very probable that Marijuana will only be legal here when it is legal in the US.

    The other problem is the typical politician demographic. Most of them are out of touch with modern culture and are willfully ignorant to the majority of people's opinions (this is obvious in a country like Australia). Until our politicians retire and are replaced with today's young people, it seems unlikely that they'll ever be for the legalisation of pot.

    It'll be a great day when it finally does become legalised, atleast it seems likely that pot WILL become legal at some point.

    What i'd like (atleast) would be for the legalisation of the cultivation of pot. If it's going to be illegal to sell pot, atleast make it legal so people can legally cultivate their own. I cannot for the life of me find a reason as to why I shouldn't be allowed to grow and smoke my own pot.
    Thanks, I agree with you of course.

    Good thing about Australia is they have decriminalised to an extent anyway.

    But as a general rule, we are about 15 years behind the times.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    The whole point is that cannabis is only linked to stronger drugs because people have to seek it out illegally. If you simply got it from boots, the link to hard drugs is no longer there.
    If you are attempting to argue that Cannabis is particularly harmful, this is rubbish- there are plenty of studies.
    how could that be? too many already follow that style of life. its all a follow up, that greater numbness is always looked for. creating another problem of the addiction.

    yes there are plenty of studies, many of which counterdict each other. similar to any out look or personal research involving foods, drinks, legal narcotics, and most of everything. what comes out on top should not be what we favor but has had the most consistancy. there has been plenty of tests to show multiple of factors to creating cancers...a point in your favor perhaps since much of it is from other materials combined with marijuana to create differences between substances. similar to any tobacco company today, the ingredients are different in many cases. there is also the idea of what poisons are found in cigarettes and other tobacco products to create a quicker longer lasting 'high'. easily seen in legalized marijuana...is this worst for black market items? I would agree that it is. There has also been multiple accounts of brain damage tied to marijuana and multiple forms of items that contain it.
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    Many people feel that it is so great to finaly have something legalized, or have some item or action legalized. this however is short lived when there are so many problems that relate to it. inorder to keep such possibilities in the minds of people, you must present all sides and cover all sides. that means you look at current legal statures, look at what problems may arise, and look at what solutions may help. after that, it could be easier...but majority of people simply want something legalized without regulations or without anythought. an ignorant thought indeed. thats the reason why it wont work. reason why amsterdam and such places create such legalizations was because of the influence of govt. and the fact that most govt. positions smoked their own. they are of perfect evidence that simple legalization is not a good idea. majority of their people seem addicted to drugs and theres nothing to do bout it. however a correct way may be to work backwards...or rather forward. allow small advances to create a comforting enviroment. thats why the prohibition didnt work, nor the legalization of alc. within the U.S. both had numberous problems.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    how could that be? too many already follow that style of life. its all a follow up, that greater numbness is always looked for. creating another problem of the addiction.

    yes there are plenty of studies, many of which counterdict each other. similar to any out look or personal research involving foods, drinks, legal narcotics, and most of everything. what comes out on top should not be what we favor but has had the most consistancy. there has been plenty of tests to show multiple of factors to creating cancers...a point in your favor perhaps since much of it is from other materials combined with marijuana to create differences between substances. similar to any tobacco company today, the ingredients are different in many cases. there is also the idea of what poisons are found in cigarettes and other tobacco products to create a quicker longer lasting 'high'. easily seen in legalized marijuana...is this worst for black market items? I would agree that it is. There has also been multiple accounts of brain damage tied to marijuana and multiple forms of items that contain it.
    I can't believe you're still pushing the gateway effect. 50% of people have used cannabis at one time or another yet prevalence of heroin use is at an all time low at.2%. If you make the softer drugs easier to obtain and kept away from the harder drugs market the number of harder drug users decreases even lower as you can see in Amsterdam.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    Many people feel that it is so great to finaly have something legalized, or have some item or action legalized. this however is short lived when there are so many problems that relate to it. inorder to keep such possibilities in the minds of people, you must present all sides and cover all sides. that means you look at current legal statures, look at what problems may arise, and look at what solutions may help. after that, it could be easier...but majority of people simply want something legalized without regulations or without anythought. an ignorant thought indeed. thats the reason why it wont work. reason why amsterdam and such places create such legalizations was because of the influence of govt. and the fact that most govt. positions smoked their own. they are of perfect evidence that simple legalization is not a good idea. majority of their people seem addicted to drugs and theres nothing to do bout it. however a correct way may be to work backwards...or rather forward. allow small advances to create a comforting enviroment. thats why the prohibition didnt work, nor the legalization of alc. within the U.S. both had numberous problems.
    Are you saying that the majority of Dutch citizens are addicted to taking drugs? 20% of their 16-24 year olds have used cannabis whereas the figures here are over double that, nearer the 50% mark. The average age of an addict there is 44 years old and here it is 33 years and the number of addicts is declining there every day. Seems like a win win situation.
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    How harmful is smoking marijuana to the body? Is it as harmful as tobacco?
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    No.

    I won't bother stating why, as I'll just be classified as "brainwashed by the establishment" or something equally ridiculious.
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    (Original post by lotsofsnails)
    How harmful is smoking marijuana to the body? Is it as harmful as tobacco?
    We had a speaker at my school the other day. An ex-druggie, as a matter of fact, who'd been doing pretty much every drug in the book back in the day. He told us about one of his old childhood friends who'd smoked some marijuana with a bunch of mates, and had gone insane. He'd been doing it ********* of times before, but that time it went wrong. He killed himself in a mental institution some 10 years later.

    Now, as he said, it only happens to a small percentage, and it does not have to be at the first joint. It could equally have been the 125th or the 249th. There's no telling.


    Now I know this will just be condemned as, inconvienient, propaganda by the druggies here, and I can't be arsed to have an argumentation or anything. This is what he said, and I could probably refer you to him if you like.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Are you saying that the majority of Dutch citizens are addicted to taking drugs? 20% of their 16-24 year olds have used cannabis whereas the figures here are over double that, nearer the 50% mark. The average age of an addict there is 44 years old and here it is 33 years and the number of addicts is declining there every day. Seems like a win win situation.
    oh wow, great statistics, obtained by people asking random people whos addicted and whos on what yea? great poll you have going. 10 points margin of error isn't it? most of them are. especially that way, since the whole ideal of addiction is seeing it as something else. to an addict, they won't reconise it until it hits them hard. I'v had family members, and plenty of friends say the same ********. "no Im not addicted" and yet, they can't stop...never stopping for anyone. therefore anyone asked such a question and to answer yes truthfuly would have been addicted at one time, or recently realising their fall.

    such a real disgrace when you see people leing around high out of their minds in parks, plazas, etc. thats a fall of society, reason why alc. was made illegal in USA during the 20's.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    oh wow, great statistics, obtained by people asking random people whos addicted and whos on what yea? great poll you have going. 10 points margin of error isn't it? most of them are. especially that way, since the whole ideal of addiction is seeing it as something else. to an addict, they won't reconise it until it hits them hard. I'v had family members, and plenty of friends say the same ********. "no Im not addicted" and yet, they can't stop...never stopping for anyone. therefore anyone asked such a question and to answer yes truthfuly would have been addicted at one time, or recently realising their fall.

    such a real disgrace when you see people leing around high out of their minds in parks, plazas, etc. thats a fall of society, reason why alc. was made illegal in USA during the 20's.
    You fail to recognise that it doesn't do harm to anyone else though, so what problem do you have with it? O no those evil people in the park are smiling and their eyes are blood shot!!!1 I didn't cite statistics of addiction levels I cited levels of use and levels of use are lower in Holland where it has a quasi-legal status compared to here where things are only getting more hardline. Cannabis use since being downgraded to C in the uk has dropped from 10% to 8% which just proves my point further. Either get some facts and stop rambling or give up. Some appropriate punctuation would also be nice, if i'm high and can do it surely you can?
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    (Original post by Paxdax)
    We had a speaker at my school the other day. An ex-druggie, as a matter of fact, who'd been doing pretty much every drug in the book back in the day. He told us about one of his old childhood friends who'd smoked some marijuana with a bunch of mates, and had gone insane. He'd been doing it ********* of times before, but that time it went wrong. He killed himself in a mental institution some 10 years later.

    Now, as he said, it only happens to a small percentage, and it does not have to be at the first joint. It could equally have been the 125th or the 249th. There's no telling.


    Now I know this will just be condemned as, inconvienient, propaganda by the druggies here, and I can't be arsed to have an argumentation or anything. This is what he said, and I could probably refer you to him if you like.
    Nobody here denys that mental health problems are worsened by cannabis but they certainly aren't created out of no where that's for sure. That person would have had to have a high risk factor of mental illness in their lifetime anyway. Furthermore people who are in that frame of mind are the ones more likely to be using it because of its illegal status. Personally I use scientific studies to base my opinion on rather than just some guy that came into my school to try and put me off drugs. Let me guess, ecstasy has a 99.9% chance of killing you? At the end of the day prohibition isn't keeping drugs out of the vulnerable's hands, the law doesn't even play into their self medicating. I'm not about to have my right to put a substance in my body curtailed because it might stop 1 person world wide from getting mental health problems, they aren't my look out.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You fail to recognise that it doesn't do harm to anyone else though, so what problem do you have with it? O no those evil people in the park are smiling and their eyes are blood shot!!!1 I didn't cite statistics of addiction levels I cited levels of use and levels of use are lower in Holland where it has a quasi-legal status compared to here where things are only getting more hardline. Cannabis use since being downgraded to C in the uk has dropped from 10% to 8% which just proves my point further. Either get some facts and stop rambling or give up. Some appropriate punctuation would also be nice, if i'm high and can do it surely you can?
    harm to no one else? you really want the economy to rely on a drug? create wreckless people who over all obtain jobless lives? its not pineapple express, most people to form such addictions fall away from their daily responsibilities i.g. families, jobs. so people are being fired with a real lack of force to fill it, unless your into fast food joints, and the narcotics business that anyone can get into after legalization. but what jobs exist in amy? whore shops and more...maybe a few smart people running without pot in their heads all day, but still stuck on something else.
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    (Original post by Paxdax)
    We had a speaker at my school the other day. An ex-druggie, as a matter of fact, who'd been doing pretty much every drug in the book back in the day. He told us about one of his old childhood friends who'd smoked some marijuana with a bunch of mates, and had gone insane. He'd been doing it ********* of times before, but that time it went wrong. He killed himself in a mental institution some 10 years later.

    Now, as he said, it only happens to a small percentage, and it does not have to be at the first joint. It could equally have been the 125th or the 249th. There's no telling.


    Now I know this will just be condemned as, inconvienient, propaganda by the druggies here, and I can't be arsed to have an argumentation or anything. This is what he said, and I could probably refer you to him if you like.
    People go crazy - it happens. Sometimes those people happen to have smoked marijuana, sometimes not. Post hoc ergo procter hoc.

    The vast, overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers use with no problems whatsoever and are throughly undeserving of any criminal status. An anecdotal tale of someone who 'went crazy' after smoking one joint is not good enough evidence that putting otherwise law abiding people in prison is good for society.

    (Original post by da_nolo)
    harm to no one else? you really want the economy to rely on a drug? create wreckless people who over all obtain jobless lives? its not pineapple express, most people to form such addictions fall away from their daily responsibilities i.g. families, jobs. so people are being fired with a real lack of force to fill it, unless your into fast food joints, and the narcotics business that anyone can get into after legalization. but what jobs exist in amy? whore shops and more...maybe a few smart people running without pot in their heads all day, but still stuck on something else.
    What the hell? That barely makes sense.

    But if you're implying that all marijuana users are 'wreckless (whatever that means) people who are unable to hold down a job, or succeed, statistical and for what it's worth anecdotal evidence proves you wrong rather quickly.
 
 
 
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