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    (Original post by kikzen)
    sometimes
    *shudders at the thought and smell*
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    but we have still not come to a conclusion though is there a link?

    Hate to bring up the issue of racial division again but I believe hip-hop is as mainstream as it is today due to successful white rappers (Eminem) exposing white culture to the genre.

    Those that have long been into hip-hop are the ones disgusted with the deteriorating effects that commercialism has brought upon the genre. Mainstream "artists" such as 50 Cent previously quoted do not represent what hip-hop is about and only cash in on the impressionable youth who consequently see gun crime as fashionable.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Hate to bring up the issue of racial division again but I believe hip-hop is as mainstream as it is today due to successful white rappers (Eminem) exposing white culture to the genre.

    Those that have long been into hip-hop are the ones disgusted with the deteriorating effects that commercialism has brought upon the genre. Mainstream "artists" such as 50 Cent previously quoted do not represent what hip-hop is about and only cash in on the impressionable youth who consequently see gun crime as fashionable.
    Eminem did not bring white culture into rap. He lived his whole life in a black culture so how could he?
    The original point of rap was for black people to express their feelings at the tribulations from the segregation days and even at the time of rap's creation, the 90s. Eminem is probably the only successful one now to be using rap for this purpose. The others are what I call 'glam-rap', painting the picture that rap culture as it has now become is so fabulous. It gives the youth an easy cop-out from acheiving well in the education system.
    But I don't childishly pass the buck to the music industry, rather I blame the authorities in those areas in which the culture is present. People of all races strut around in their hooded tops and 'bling bling' and boxers round their ankles thinking they're 'gangsta' and they own the city. It's not only disgusting to observe but it can be demoralising to live in sometimes. There is always the constant fear of being mugged or shot, and also I often wonder to myself how these thugs can get the money for all these material gains (the clothes, the jewellery, the trainers etc.) while I'm here working my ass off for a benefit I won't feel for years to come. At least I know I will have a good future and enjoy my life beyond my teens, but those not as lucky as me to realise this are those who fall into this trap. The government should work harder in convincing us that education works, and not so much time in putting its make-up on in the face of scandal.

    I can't suggest anything for the music industry though. But then I like good music.
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    (Original post by ZJuwelH)
    Eminem did not bring white culture into rap. He lived his whole life in a black culture so how could he?
    The original point of rap was for black people to express their feelings at the tribulations from the segregation days and even at the time of rap's creation, the 90s. Eminem is probably the only successful one now to be using rap for this purpose. The others are what I call 'glam-rap', painting the picture that rap culture as it has now become is so fabulous. It gives the youth an easy cop-out from acheiving well in the education system.
    But I don't childishly pass the buck to the music industry, rather I blame the authorities in those areas in which the culture is present. People of all races strut around in their hooded tops and 'bling bling' and boxers round their ankles thinking they're 'gangsta' and they own the city. It's not only disgusting to observe but it can be demoralising to live in sometimes. There is always the constant fear of being mugged or shot, and also I often wonder to myself how these thugs can get the money for all these material gains (the clothes, the jewellery, the trainers etc.) while I'm here working my ass off for a benefit I won't feel for years to come. At least I know I will have a good future and enjoy my life beyond my teens, but those not as lucky as me to realise this are those who fall into this trap. The government should work harder in convincing us that education works, and not so much time in putting its make-up on in the face of scandal.

    I can't suggest anything for the music industry though. But then I like good music.
    Interesting post. It's often suggested that rap causes, or contributes to violence. I think the real interesting question would require one not to just focus on there being a correlation; rather to ask whether person x, or y would have committed those crimes had it not been for rap music. It's of course conceivable/perhaps even odds on that this person has suffered from a large sum of difficulties in life, and that rap may have acted as a trigger. If that trigger had not been rap music, it could quite easily have been something else. This reminds me of when people talk about pornography and suggest that it’s leading to sexual crimes.

    When Politicians isolate these two variables (i.e. rap/pornography) and argue that banning them is likely to eradicate the crimes that are associated with them, I really begin to question their intentions. I don’t think anybody with even a moderate degree of intelligence would purely isolate those two, and argue, without any context, that they have the immense power to single handedly cause violence/sexual crimes.

    The situation is rather like that of a ticking time bomb. There are people that have suffered, are suffering, frustrated and annoyed. These people can only control their urges for so long, eventually they will find an outlet to express them.
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    "But I firmly believe it is people that kill people, not guns. You can always find a gun no matter how hard law makes it".

    This is very interesting. Although there is a good deal of truth in it, ultimately I disagree with the gist of it.

    I think the best analogy would require one to compare a rock bottom comprehensive with a well-disciplined grammar school. The way to look at it is, in the former there are large quantities of disruptive students, whilst in the latter the people are ambitious, hard working and have a good range of resources at their disposal. Any parent that is serious about their child doing well academically is likely to want to send them to the latter. Why is that? A good education is potentially available at both, however it’s more likely at the grammar school. If somebody is very bright and determined they can succeed at either. If a student is idle and dim, they are likely to fail at both. However, that’s not the point, because that sort of reasoning (although true) is misleading. What me must do is look at the averages, not exceptional cases.

    A gun is MORE readily available when it’s either legal/poorly regulated. Yes, a determined fellow (rather like the determined student at the Comprehensive) could surely get ahold of it regardless (as you argue). However, he would have to be relatively more determined to get ahold of a gun if they were not readily available. If the gun had been easy to acquire, and his peers where in possession of it (rather like the student at the top notch grammar) it would require relatively less effort to get ahold of it.
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    this may be true but the conslusion is still not clear although there may not be one at all.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to how previous generations didnt feel social alienation or 'hopelessness'or poverty? of course, they did. i would agree that political correctness and affirmative action have driven social identity underground. in trying to pursue a failed goal, the left has fragmented society into individuals who have no identity for themselves among others.

    however, it is the self-centered attitude to pursue your own feelings and let them be known to everyone else, as if everyone is actually interested, that is the main consequence of a narcissitic attitude that developed in the 60s-70s and took hold throughout the 80s. the children of the 80s are todays young adults, the social group among which this attitude is most visible. encroaching on other peoples liberties is seen as the virtue of a strong willed person and not the failing of an ill-mannered yob.
    Yet again your argument is based on extraordinarily dubious links. The 'narccistic' attitude of the 60s and 70s applied no the mothers and fathers of today's most troubled secotrs of society's but rather to the liberal middle class of today, predominantly white of course. Now if you want to see social alienation and real anti-social behavoiur one will have to go to Hackney, Bow, Brixton and the estates there. Drug addiction, unemployment, low levels of education seem to me to be the distinctive things about these areas along side the awful state of the homes themselves. For me the Thatcher's reign is a far more obvious cause of these state of affairs. A growth in the gap between richest and poorest, and the dog-eat-dog mentatlity, springing from right-wing neo libeberalism as opposed to leftist political though as you stipulate, instilled in many of today's most brutalized groups in society. The anti-social behaviour is a manefestation of gross inequalities, resulting in social fracturing and frustration in our cities. The desire for material wealth is instilled by every TV advert and bill board leads far more to this atomistic and self-centered attitude to the world many have.

    (Original post by Unregistered)
    No it doesn't you moron. While we're banning rap music lets ban action films too. Hell let's ban averything until we only have shows and songs about teddy bears hugging each other.
    fair play mate rap music rocks who wants to watch care bears when there older, im 17 and listen to rap music all the time and i dont want to go around killing people and wrecking phone boxes and alike, good for you that fool didint know what they were talking about ban people like that not rap music its the stupidity of people not music that causes crime you dont have eminem holding the gun for the criminal! carry on with what you like, why should any one else change it!
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    yes indeed most people do not but in some cases peopel have gone out and shot people becuase they think it is normal and a 'hard' thing to do becuase of rap music glamorzing gun culture.
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    (Original post by Eámanë)
    yes indeed most people do not but in some cases peopel have gone out and shot people becuase they think it is normal and a 'hard' thing to do becuase of rap music glamorzing gun culture.
    Exactly

    Why do u think that jamie bulgar toddler got murdered, them 10 year old kids watched some violent film beforehand. They even covered him with blue paint or sumthing, just like in the real movie. Sumthing like that anyways
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    (Original post by :P:P:P:P:P)
    Exactly

    Why do u think that jamie bulgar toddler got murdered, them 10 year old kids watched some violent film beforehand. They even covered him with blue paint or sumthing, just like in the real movie. Sumthing like that anyways
    Please don't repeat heresay like this without checking out the facts of the case first. The 2 boys involved had both come from exrtemely disfunctional families where what little love and affection they recieved was usurped when a younger sibling was born. Watching horror films was likely to have little to do with them egging each other on to fulfill a fantasy of sibling revenge.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Yet again your argument is based on extraordinarily dubious links. The 'narccistic' attitude of the 60s and 70s applied no the mothers and fathers of today's most troubled secotrs of society's but rather to the liberal middle class of today, predominantly white of course.
    it manifested over 20+years and it effected every corner of popular society. although, you are discriminating on class and colour, where i dont really see the need,point or ability.

    Now if you want to see social alienation and real anti-social behavoiur one will have to go to Hackney, Bow, Brixton and the estates there. Drug addiction, unemployment, low levels of education seem to me to be the distinctive things about these areas along side the awful state of the homes themselves. For me the Thatcher's reign is a far more obvious cause of these state of affairs. A growth in the gap between richest and poorest, and the dog-eat-dog mentatlity, springing from right-wing neo libeberalism as opposed to leftist political though as you stipulate, instilled in many of today's most brutalized groups in society. The anti-social behaviour is a manefestation of gross inequalities, resulting in social fracturing and frustration in our cities. The desire for material wealth is instilled by every TV advert and bill board leads far more to this atomistic and self-centered attitude to the world many have.
    ahhh, outcomes the 1st year politic student again, fresh from another left-wing author...youve buried the point under so much left-wing socialist babble even a hardened forumite such as myself is having trouble to stay with you here.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    Please don't repeat heresay like this without checking out the facts of the case first. The 2 boys involved had both come from exrtemely disfunctional families where what little love and affection they recieved was usurped when a younger sibling was born. Watching horror films was likely to have little to do with them egging each other on to fulfill a fantasy of sibling revenge.
    You havnt addressed the 'blue paint' issue.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    it manifested over 20+years and it effected every corner of popular society. although, you are discrimination on class and colour, where i dont really see the need,point or ability.



    ahhh, outcomes the 1st year politic student again, fresh from another left-wing author...youve buried the point under so much left-wing socialist babble even a hardened forumite such as myself is having trouble to stay with you here.
    What is your obsession with ****ging off left wingers

    people dont constantly **** you off about your nationalistic principles.
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    (Original post by :P:P:P:P:P)
    You havnt addressed the 'blue paint' issue.
    The blue paint issue isn't an issue - it's rumour not fact. It wasn't mentioned during the trial or since by any reputable source - the same as the rumours about batteries being inserted into Jamie's anus.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    The blue paint issue isn't an issue - it's rumour not fact. It wasn't mentioned during the trial or since by any reputable source - the same as the rumours about batteries being inserted into Jamie's anus.
    My media studies teacher said the blue paint thing was true...why would anyone make it up, and how could they have the background knowledge to do so?
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    (Original post by :P:P:P:P:P)
    My media studies teacher said the blue paint thing was true...why would anyone make it up, and how could they have the background knowledge to do so?
    I'm not implying your media studies teach made it up but the press at the time printed all sorts of sensationalist lies and rumours almost none of which turned out to be true...and almost none of which were contested by the 2 boys in question who were all but illiterate at the time and understandably occupied with other things.

    The hysterical tone of the papers using a tragic event to brand 2 boys "evil" and pin the blame on horror films hardly required them to have any background knowledge...they said what people wanted to hear and the rumours got repeated and retold until they were accepted by the majority as fact - but acceptance doesn't indicate that they are true and the evidence presented at the trial and afterwards suggests otherwise.
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    The following is an excerpt from an article I wrote for a local newspaper last year, it should express my views on this matter (of course, it was never published):

    Crime figures are up and I blame women. It's the fault of those romantic novels that they insist on reading. You know, the ones where gardners in dungarees appear out of nowhere to prune their hedges and lick the sweat out of their navels. They portray a blatantly unrealistic view of life and fool women into thinking their friends are getting more than a once-yearly dry hump from their shambles of a husband. This leads to a build-up of tension, which erupts over Kilroy at about 10.00am, and ends on the streets on a bloody tragedy.

    Of course, I could be wrong. I don't know anything about crime or Mills & Boon, but I don't see why that should stop me. Everyone else seems to be qualified to make sweeping statements about things they know absolutely nothing about, like the procession of no-name 'celebrities', royal dignitaries, headline-seeking MPs, outraged parents and hypocritical redtops that insist on putting the ills of the world at the door of the entertainment industry.

    One of the main targets of this misdirected abuse seems to be the computer game industry. Let's start at the top. Prince Charles stated, "One of the great battles we face today is to persuade our children away from computer games towards what can only be described as worthwhile books." The fact that he was telling this to his prize-winning clerodendrum doesn't make me any happier that he's going to be king. But at least Prince Charles lives in the real world (mostly) - does anyone remember that fantastically surreal article in the Daily Mail that suggested that Microsoft Flight Simulator might be to blame for September 11th? The idiots.

    Of course, the music industry has also recieved its fair share of complaints. The latest of these being the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, who actually made the most some sense by pointing out that the music business is making consumers of kids. Shame he didn't widen his net to bag Harry Potter as well - hell, to play safe we could just stick every book on a big bonfire and dance around the flames naked.

    But enough is enough. Perhaps all of those nasty grown-ups should accept the fact that playing computer games / listening to any post-50s music / reading books with magic in them will not instantly cause us to wear long black trenchcoats and exact bloody revenge on our headmasters. That would just be silly. I think that it is time things were put in perspective.
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    (Original post by :P:P:P:P:P)
    What is your obsession with ****ging off left wingers
    my obesession is with students who have some stereotyped ideology imprinted in their head after reading a left-wing author from the reading list. there is clear difference. i happen to respect alot of liberal views.

    people dont constantly **** you off about your nationalistic principles.
    are you sure?
    perhaps because they are my own.
 
 
 
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