Do you see mental health problems (OCD, bipolar etc) as "real" conditions? Watch

QuantumTheory
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#41
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#41
(Original post by never say never)
Do you suffer from OCD ?
No, but I know people who do, and it's heartbreaking.
My mental health history's easily available should anyone on TSR be interested without me going through it all again
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Ilora-Danon
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#42
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(Original post by cpj1987)
I just don't believe that they're medical conditions. I accept that those behaviours exist of course (unlike the OP, who thinks they're faked), but I see them simply as being behaviours.
I just don't see why everything needs to be diagnosed and given a medical name, when it's simply a trait or behaviour - and I certainly don't think diagnoses (and thus following self-fulfilling prophecies and drug prescription) are the right way to go about changing behaviours.
Where do those behaviours come from? Do you think they're nature or nurture? How do you suppose they change those behaviours, and if they are behaviours, why doesn't everyone behave the same way?
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SiaSiaSia
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#43
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yes :/
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JMonkey
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#44
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I suppose Vincent Van Gogh cut of his ear lobe and mailed it to a prostitute because he was a bit sad. I presume also his use of vivid colour and impressionist feeling has nothing to do with mania or depression? Try looking at Starry night through the eyes of someone who is in the mania phase. I also presume he shot himself in the stomach with a shot gun because he was having a bad hair day.

OCD well it's code for badly behaved beyond just the norm. But it still is wise to treat it rather than end up with some kid who sets fire to things for fun.

Also someone who grinds to a halt in the middle of a super market and can't move for 6 hours is obviously also just winding everyone up for ***** and giggles. I'm sure my shizophrenic mate who was hospitalised 3 times was just pranking us when he covered all his stereo equipment in tin foil and thought he was Jesus.
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#45
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Yes. Two very close friends suffer from OCD and bipolar amongst other things and the impact it has upon their lives is awful

That said, I'm sure a small minority of people might abuse people's sympathy and exaggerate any condition they may have

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cpj1987
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#46
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(Original post by Ilora-Danon)
Where do those behaviours come from? Do you think they're nature or nurture? How do you suppose they change those behaviours, and if they are behaviours, why doesn't everyone behave the same way?
I believe that all behaviour is moulded by nurture. I don't believe that behaviours need changing, but if someones behaviour is impacting on their ability to live their life happily then deeper root causes must be considered - through counselling, perhaps. I'm all for people visiting GPs if they're struggling to deal with a behaviour, but I'm against classification and diagnosis because every person is different and behaviours don't need medical names.
Personally, I had a number of what could have been labelled 'mental illnesses' when I was younger; but they were natural reactions to what was going on in my life.
My brother has diagnosed dyslexia, and I think the key here is to foster good spelling - pointing out when he makes mistakes and teaching him how to spell properly, rather than resigning him to the fact that it's a mental illness and he'll never learn to spell properly, which really isn't the case (the reason I also disagree strongly with extra time in exams).
I may have gone off on a tangent here, but as I said earlier, I just really don't believe in the existence of 'mental health PROBLEMS', more conditions and behaviours that can be changed with a new mindset.
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GodspeedGehenna
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#47
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(Original post by cpj1987)
I just don't believe that they're medical conditions. I accept that those behaviours exist of course (unlike the OP, who thinks they're faked), but I see them simply as being behaviours.
I just don't see why everything needs to be diagnosed and given a medical name, when it's simply a trait or behaviour - and I certainly don't think diagnoses (and thus following self-fulfilling prophecies and drug prescription) are the right way to go about changing behaviours.
So you believe that a Schizophrenic is just "misbehaved"? So how do you explain the physiological differences such as abnormal neural activity in the frontal lobes, obviously increased ventricle sizes of the brain as well as various other differences.


http://www.schizophrenia.com/disease.htm

Damn those naughty Schizophrenics for being so misbehaved.

:rolleyes:

So seeing as you seem to want to dispute neurological evidence, do you assume that diseases such as Parkinsons, Alzheimers and Dementia are just "behaviours" as opposed to medical conditions? I believe someone needs to spend some time on an acute psych ward and meet some of these people yourself.
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JMonkey
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#48
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#48
(Original post by cpj1987)
I believe that all behaviour is moulded by nurture. I don't believe that behaviours need changing, but if someones behaviour is impacting on their ability to live their life happily then deeper root causes must be considered - through counselling, perhaps. I'm all for people visiting GPs if they're struggling to deal with a behaviour, but I'm against classification and diagnosis because every person is different and behaviours don't need medical names.
Personally, I had a number of what could have been labelled 'mental illnesses' when I was younger; but they were natural reactions to what was going on in my life.
My brother has diagnosed dyslexia, and I think the key here is to foster good spelling - pointing out when he makes mistakes and teaching him how to spell properly, rather than resigning him to the fact that it's a mental illness and he'll never learn to spell properly, which really isn't the case (the reason I also disagree strongly with extra time in exams).
I may have gone off on a tangent here, but as I said earlier, I just really don't believe in the existence of 'mental health PROBLEMS', more conditions and behaviours that can be changed with a new mindset.
Yeah but that's just crap isn't it.

I'm sure all those people in high security mental institutions for 40 years are all happy to know they can stop smearing faeces on the walls and screaming for hours on end, because it's all just a behavioural thing.

Honestly peoples ability to diagnose the worlds problems as trivial based on their own limited experience never fails to amaze me. Since when did you get a Dr in front of your name?
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ghanglish
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#49
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oh dear ...

I'll put the OP question down to genuine ignorance. There're 1 or 2 people with MHPs in my extended family and trust me they're real.
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edanon
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#50
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REGARDLESS of whether or not it's nature or nurture, i agree with CPJ that we are all just individuals on a spectrum of mentality/behaviour. There is no "normal" person and so no one intrinsically needs to be treated.

"Mental illness" however is a usefull term to describe a state of mind that makes someone feel personally unable to live their life as they see fit.
There are no two people the same on this planet and so everyone is different. It's only when that difference becomes too severe for the individual to function in the society they live in that we may call it a "problem".

Although society may try to cater for every type of person, you still need to fulfill certain requirements if it means you're not going to encounter problems. This goes for physical difference as well as mental.

A person with bi-polar may be more comfortable living with it than being spaced out on medcine. They may, however decide that it is a problem and want help for it.

So mental illness is really something the individual should decide they have.
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cpj1987
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#51
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(Original post by JMonkey)
Since when did you get a Dr in front of your name?
I didn't, hence the 'I believe'.
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Malsy
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#52
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:doh:
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tis_me_lord
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#53
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Yes of course they're real conditions: but psychological conditions are easier to fake than physical ones and thus the fakers drag down the reputation of the illness.

Manic depression, especially, is most certainly real. I grew up with a bi-polar and would be very offended if someone tried to tell me that's not a real illness, seeing as I grew up around suicide attempts and such because of it.

OCD I have no personal experience in, not in extreme forms anyway. But washing your hands until they bleed etc isn't something you'd fake just for a laugh. I'd imagine it would actually be quite terrible to have it to a serious degree.
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The Procrastinator
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#54
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(Original post by smish)
I hate the way everyone thinks they have OCD when they clearly don't have a clue about it. "Oh I'm so OCD about it, I'm like TOTALLY obsessed". Urgh.
This does my head in so much. People are so ignorant!!!!!!:mad:
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Liquidus Zeromus
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(Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
One of the big problems of mental illness is the terrible stigma that comes with it. Things like that make recovery so much more of an uphill struggle and it just feeds into the vicious cycle. I have as much sympathy for someone with Schizophrenia as I do with MS. They are both things that can leave you trapped in your body and completely take your life from you.
:ditto:

Mentally ill people need support, not abuse.
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JMonkey
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#56
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(Original post by cpj1987)
I didn't, hence the 'I believe'.
Yes but you'd have to be an idiot to believe that mental illness was all completely fictional wouldn't you? I mean it's like saying cancer doesn't exist because you don't know anyone who's got it or had it. Ie moronic.
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Liquidus Zeromus
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(Original post by cpj1987)
I believe that all behaviour is moulded by nurture. I don't believe that behaviours need changing, but if someones behaviour is impacting on their ability to live their life happily then deeper root causes must be considered - through counselling, perhaps. I'm all for people visiting GPs if they're struggling to deal with a behaviour, but I'm against classification and diagnosis because every person is different and behaviours don't need medical names.
Personally, I had a number of what could have been labelled 'mental illnesses' when I was younger; but they were natural reactions to what was going on in my life.
My brother has diagnosed dyslexia, and I think the key here is to foster good spelling - pointing out when he makes mistakes and teaching him how to spell properly, rather than resigning him to the fact that it's a mental illness and he'll never learn to spell properly, which really isn't the case (the reason I also disagree strongly with extra time in exams).
I may have gone off on a tangent here, but as I said earlier, I just really don't believe in the existence of 'mental health PROBLEMS', more conditions and behaviours that can be changed with a new mindset.
Fffuuu, you don't seem to know the difference between mental illness, developmental disorders, and personality disorders and mental trauma.

Dyslexia is a learning disability, not a mental illness, and it most certainly does exist.
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epitaph for my heart
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(Original post by GodspeedGehenna)
So you believe that a Schizophrenic is just "misbehaved"? So how do you explain the physiological differences such as abnormal neural activity in the frontal lobes, obviously increased ventricle sizes of the brain as well as various other differences.


http://www.schizophrenia.com/disease.htm

Damn those naughty Schizophrenics for being so misbehaved.

:rolleyes:

So seeing as you seem to want to dispute neurological evidence, do you assume that diseases such as Parkinsons, Alzheimers and Dementia are just "behaviours" as opposed to medical conditions? I believe someone needs to spend some time on an acute psych ward and meet some of these people yourself.
you're the psychologist but I think your brain does physically change from learned mental behaviour?
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edanon
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(Original post by The Procrastinator)
This does my head in so much. People are so ignorant!!!!!!:mad:
But aren't there varying degrees of OCD?

I thought i had it at one point as a child but it wasn't anything crazy like washing my hands till they bleed.

I used to do things like walk past a bollard in the street and then have to run back to it to touch it.

or.. touching every gate on front gardens in a street... or touching the fridge handle 3 times to make sure its closed.

i'm pretty sure they're OCD to a certain degree although they're not serious.
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GodspeedGehenna
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(Original post by edanon)
REGARDLESS of whether or not it's nature or nurture, i agree with CPJ that we are all just individuals on a spectrum of mentality/behaviour. There is no "normal" person and so no one intrinsically needs to be treated.

"Mental illness" however is a usefull term to describe a state of mind that makes someone feel personally unable to live their life as they see fit.
There are no two people the same on this planet and so everyone is different. It's only when that difference becomes too severe for the individual to function in the society they live in that we may call it a "problem".

Although society may try to cater for every type of person, you still need to fulfill certain requirements if it means you're not going to encounter problems. This goes for physical difference as well as mental.

A person with bi-polar may be more comfortable living with it than being spaced out on medcine. They may, however decide that it is a problem and want help for it.

So mental illness is really something the individual should decide they have.
That's a pretty retarded and ill-thought out concept. What if someone progresses to the stage of illness where they no longer have the capacity to make such logical judgements about their own health. Schizophrenics often have a complete poverty in the ability to accept overwhelming evidence against their condition: i.e. "The TV is not talking to you. Here are reasons why, how do you dispute these reasons?" will only be responded by "THE TV IS TALKING TO ME. IT TELLS ME TO DO THIS, THIS AND THIS. I AM NOT ILL, I HAVE A MISSION TO DO." (obviously these behaviours differ, but this is a common one for paranoid schizophrenics, none-the-less).

So according to your theory, the person above should just be left to drown in their psychosis for the rest of their lives.

In your post, you addressed one of the major issues of Clinical Psychology/Psychiatry. "How do we decide who is ill and who isnt?". Obviously this is something that has plagued the discipline since the early 19th century. Yes, there is no "normal" person as you say, but would you do an experiment using a 1 participant sample and say it extrapolates to the entire population? No, you wouldn't. Hence the discipline bases its catagories of illness based on statistical deviation of behaviours. Incredibly roughly speaking, you get tons and tons of people, quantify their behaviours, and average it out to get the "normal" person on which to form comparisons. You then assume that mental abnormalities are statistically deviant and will therefore significantly differ from the comparitive model.

Then based on a shedload of clinical experience, understanding and logic, you determine whether or not a person does meet the definitions of mental illness (which introduces various catagories such as level of suffering, observer discomfort, potency of beliefs etc etc).

You used an example of Bi-Polar disorder. Yes, someone may try medication and find themselves spaced out, but others may try it and it makes the world of a difference thus improving their quality of life by miles. Many other alternatives are then open to them. It's only if their condition deteriorates to the point where they are at harm to themselves or others when forced treatment should occur.
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