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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Ah yes, of course.

    You can't tolerate anyone defending Israel (typical leftists hate free speech) so one must disregard pro-Israelis as nothing by paid up members - because heaven forbid someone has a differing opinion.

    I take it you're a Muslim? see, two can play this game.
    So instantly, anybody who is either neutral or in preference of Palestine is a leftist Muslim?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    That's missing the point, is it not? The point was that Hamas support the killings, otherwise they would have renounced their previous remarks or expelled (or at least demoted) the spokesman who said them.
    No condemnation =/= Support.

    One can equally look at the reactions of foreign governments. Does the lack of condemnation for the Israeli killing of civilians mean that foreign nations tacitly support the killing of the Palestinians?

    I want to limit what constitutes a liberal democracy to the definition of a liberal democracy. You want it to mean whatever you like.
    But I'm saying that there are liberal democracies which go further than what you want it to in which case, it would make your definition of a liberal democracy redundant as it will become a conservative democracy.

    You can't pick and choose...

    They have, in their charter and in their covenant, and in the deranged speeches their officials have made.
    So why do they hold elections then? I thought in an Islamic state, there wouldn't be any elections. Do you even know what you are talking about?
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    LOL!

    You sound like an expert.

    Any idea why they had a camera set up and trained on that house?

    I'll tell you why. Because they got a call/text to warn them.

    The 'roof knock' is the FINAL warning before the strike.

    Israel gives them several warnings.

    Do some research and you won't be schooled so harshly on here time and time again.
    Any evidence for this?
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    (Original post by felamaslen)
    It's not all Hamas; some of it is Islamic Jihad and other groups / individuals. The difference is, Hamas endorses and engages in rocket fire. The IDF don't endorse the horrific revenge murder of that Palestinian teenager.

    I see. The IDF apologies profusely for killing those innocent children unintentionally. They are way better than the Hamas militants, who certainly lack discipline and a central command. Perhaps killing more of their leaders would help them control their "army" better. I sometimes believe that the Israeli airstrikes are creating more enemies and terrorists but then I remember that a lot of innocent but potential-jihadist civilians are killed too. I only hope a more hard line Zionist regime comes to power in Jerusalem so that they'll do more to eradicate the savagery.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Islamic propaganda. How much is the Mosque paying you?


    They are paid better than the hasbara. Its time the IDF expanded its forces online.
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    Is there any proof those Jews were even kidnapped? false flag perhaps. Seems like they used that as an excuse to start all of this trouble.
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    I really dislike how people are handling this issue, both in gathering support and in how people are ignoring that Hamas are also committing terrible crimes.

    I went to a protest in Leeds on the 12th of July to show my support against the conflict by carrying a banner that read "Human Rights for All". The protest was good, I had a few small criticism, mainly on the nationalistic chanting but that wasn't too big of a deal. Turnout was good and I feel people were welcoming.

    However, since then I have read more into the movement, into groups and the whole conflict and it has got me thinking.

    1) Being too broad, not addressing the issue and not being as open to others as possible
    However, I have felt out of place a lot of the time as there are people making this into a religious issue on FB and on forums and in protests, I sent a message complaining to a FB page saying that they should narrow down what they post simply to Palestine issues, but they persisted to ignore me. I make no hyperbole when I say the majority of what is posted is just preaching and it's not even related to Palestine. I wouldn't mind if the page was specifically for Islamic related stuff, but the page is called "Free Palestine". This has really discerned me as I thoroughly explained that they will accomplish nothing by targeting simply Muslims. I mentioned how this was a factor contributing to the failure of the Occupy Movement and how instead of putting forward the underlying issues they wanted fixing they often sided with the unions and got involved with the socialists and anarchists too much ideologically. Regardless of whether you agree with these positions a pressure/advocacy group cannot accomplish very much in terms of support if it has a broad set of ideas and principles. Just imagine a animal rights campaign operated by neo-liberal pagans constantly bashing on about those ideas too, it just distracts people from the real issue. Mentioning of 'the Ummah' really makes me feel out of place.

    This is why I would like to see the movement shift towards enforcing human rights in the Palestinian region and simply stopping the conflict. I am thoroughly aware that groups like PSC are reasonably narrow in their aims, but the movement as a whole should seek to address the issue rather than promote other ideas and preach. I also feel as if they were more interested in sucking up to God than following my ideas of practical action. I said that they should sign the .gov petition and write to their MPs, whilst this is usually a minimal impact approach in numbers it would be effective in stirring discussion in the HoC. Perhaps I am being too cynical, but there is no need to make this a Muslim only issue or a socialist only issue.
    With the Occupy movement parable, I consider myself an anarchist but I disagree with how too many anarchist ideas were put forward and how key demands such as preventing tax evasion, money in politics and ludicrous wealth inequality were not prioritized. Many conservatives would agree that these were issues they agreed were problems, but by having too many ties with the unions, anarchists and socialist groups this really made them feel out of place. This is the same with PSC and links to unions (although I'm not sure if this is verified).

    2) Hamas are also committing terrible crimes, of course they are not on the same scale as Israel, but you do not throw stones in a glass house
    Additionally to these ramblings it annoys me how I see all of these cartoons, memes and messages of people justifying what Hamas are doing as it is "self-defence". Self-defence is not attacking civilians, it should be attacking the soldiers, building fortifications and shooting down jets. Killing civilians in a conflict is never justified and again I reiterate the importance of human rights in the UDHR. I know these human rights are not enforced by international bodies like the US, UN and EU, but we as protesters, activists and people need to advocate that they are enforced, otherwise we have human rights for some and oppression and suffering for others.

    You are not getting revenge by attacking innocent people, how can you ever know for sure who you're bombing? Where is the trial and right to life? They are non-combatants for **** sake. The people of Israel and Gaza are humans and therefore entitled to the same rights, firing rockets at Israel and at Gaza is completely unacceptable and world powers should be embargoing the nations taking part in this barbaric conflict.

    TL;DR
    Probably not very concise what I have put but nonetheless. The movement should be specific to the conflict and not other irrelevant issues, everybody should be involved in the movement to stop the conflict and this is not a "do you support Palestine or Israel" "Zionists or Hamas" issue.

    No! I support the human species, I support ethical behavior and zero tolerance to this conflict.


    I would urge you, if you do plan on protesting to do the same, don't make this a nationalist issue by chanting "long live Palestine" don't make this a Muslim issue by talking about the Ummah and separating yourselves from other protesters and don't miss the point. The point is terrible atrocities are taking place and it's all due to ignoring international law, I think most people can agree that we are entitled to the human rights illustrated in the UDHR

    Sorry for this long winded rant, but these are just some things that have been bugging me.
    In any case I would advocate that you follow these links:
    https://www.writetothem.com/
    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/67165
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    (Original post by HangTheBankstas)
    Is there any proof those Jews were even kidnapped? false flag perhaps. Seems like they used that as an excuse to start all of this trouble.
    Any proof 'palestinians' have been killed?

    False flag perhaps.
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    Hamas attempts tunneling into Israel, the Jewish cowards can never fight face to face, God grant the martyrs a high rank in paradise Inshallah



    Soon Hamas will infiltrate successfully and kill many Israeli soldiers
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    Any proof 'palestinians' have been killed?

    False flag perhaps.


    hundreds of videos showing dead palestinians, never seen a dead jew
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    "I've seen some truly shocking scenes this morning. A man putting the remains of his two year old son into a shopping bag..." - Peter Beaumont
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    (Original post by aka r)
    Hamas attempts tunneling into Israel, the Jewish cowards can never fight face to face, God grant the martyrs a high rank in paradise Inshallah


    Soon Hamas will infiltrate successfully and kill many Israeli soldiers
    Thank you IDF for liquidating the Islamist enemies of humanity.

    May you be granted many more such victories
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    (Original post by aka r)


    hundreds of videos showing dead palestinians, never seen a dead jew
    That doesn't prove anything.

    False flag.


    I'm just doing what you're doing mate. Calling false flag.

    False flag.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    I didn't report anything.
    In which case, I would like to apologise.

    You've been so wrong in this thread, that statistically at some point you have to be right about something.
    I believe I may have erred on no more than two occasions on points of minor irrelevance.

    Yet amazingly, you seem to buck all statistics.
    I see that my request to your response to my video about the warnings given by the IDF went unfulfilled.

    Surely, you are not just making things up as you go along?
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    im not saying you shouldnt comment, im querying why non arab muslims take so much issue with what happens in palestine ( in abeyance of conflicts all round the world which are far worse, and have far higher casualites) - the only reason i can see is a result of propaganda.
    As I said before:

    Plus, suppose if most Muslims have stood up against Israel's attacks on Palestine, what is wrong with that? Why wouldn't you expect them to stand up against it? Would you not stand up for someone innocent who shared your beliefs and was brutally killed ? The truth is that innocent Palestinians are killed and it cannot be justified whatsoever. Please I request you to address the real problem, the killing of innocent humans, you are also a human and I'm sure humanity is higher than anything even for you.

    You cannot generalise the whole nation. I stand against every unjust act committed against any human, regardless of their religion. The Delhi rape case, the murder of April Jones, the astonishing murder of a teacher in Leeds, the sexual harassment of young Muslim girls by so-called Imams, the unjustified murder of Lee Rigby, the 9/11 attacks, the Drone attacks that's killing innocent civilians in Pakistani region of Waziristan, the increasing ratio of Pakistani men raping young White girls and many more are very unjust acts that I'm against of because its concerned with humanity.

    For you to only take notice of such a minor issue and questioning why non-Arab Muslims only protest against Palestinian issue when there's a lot of other things to worry about is clearly delusional. Plus, to point out such issues and placing such importance on them is in itself a propaganda against non-Arab Muslims and pointless because the main matter here is the loss of human lives and not who supports it and who doesn't.
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    (Original post by gideon123)
    just to get things straight...im jewish and a zionist and i dont understand why you think the actions of israel are to blame- i actually agree with you when you say; "innocent Palestinians are brutally getting killed" - its not fair that innocent civillians are being killed! However putting the blame on israel is unfair. Here is why....israel warns palestinians with leaflets and door knocking before bombing an area, however more fundamentally the blame for the death of innocent palestinians is the fault of hamas as they set up their rockets in areas with hospitals and children, so of course there will be palestinian casualties! Israel actually cares more for palestinians then hamas does!- what utter irony....so dont vent your anger at israel at the deaths of palestinian civillians when it is the fault of hamas. If hamas stopped fireing rockets then there would be no retalliation from israel and thus no palestinian casualties!
    Thank you for showing humanity and agreeing with me there. I just want to clear one thing, I'm not going to blame any religion for the unjust actions of its followers because I understand that we are all humans and are weak. Religion doesn't promotes hatred.

    This in my view is a clear torture and a way to spread terror, you have no idea how those innocent civilians must feel when they see those warnings. Its clear terrorism as it spreads terror. To say that Israel warn them before bombing is equivalent to saying that you let them know that they are soon to be attacked. It affects young children so badly mentally. Imagine if you received such a warning, you would leave your home right then and there and that's the effect its having, its making innocent Palestinians homeless and more open to getting killed.

    Even if its Hamas' fault, by actually bombing their cities, you're doing no good to maintain peace. Rather, there should a democratic way of dialogue in which the UN should play their roles and both the Palestinian and Israeli side should take it seriously.

    I don't agree with that! Have you seen the pictures of innocent children? They have been injured so inhumanely, I'm sure any real human who is left with humanity will condemn it and if Israel really cared for Palestinians, they would have stopped bombing Gaza. More than that you said in one of your post that if Palestinians can live peacefully in Israel, then why can't Israelis in the West Bank? You cannot come to the conclusion of saying that Palestinians are living peacefully there, because for that you must get into their shoes. I've given a reference to 2004 Report which explains the circumstances they are living under. Those circumstances are so bad and they are treated as second class citizens and so to say that "Israel actually cares more for Palestinians then Hamas does" is completely delusional and has no ground of truth.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)

    I see that my request to your response to my video about the warnings given by the IDF went unfulfilled.


    Even the pro-palestinian BBC did a piece on it

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28325262
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    (Original post by Chindits)


    Even the pro-palestinian BBC did a piece on it

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28325262
    Thank you. And now link that video to the video that I posted.

    In essence, PROVE (you haven't been doing much of this) that the Israeli's warned that particular household with a phone call, then "knocked on the roof" with a dud missile of some sort before they levelled the building?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Thank you. And now link that video to the video that I posted.

    In essence, PROVE (you haven't been doing much of this) that the Israeli's warned that particular household with a phone call, then "knocked on the roof" with a dud missile of some sort before they levelled the building?
    You're becoming so ridiculous.

    Given the evidence that Israel does warn residents that I have already provided AND the fact that they had a camera set up and trained on the house, would suggest they werre warned.

    Asking me to "prove" something that only Israeli intelligence and the residents know, is obviously your pathetic attempt to appear like the victor in a conversation you have obviously lost.

    Using red font etc won't help your cause.

    Gazan residents themselves have said they're getting phone call warnings.
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    (Original post by Chindits)
    You're becoming so ridiculous.

    Given the evidence that Israel does warn residents that I have already provided AND the fact that they had a camera set up and trained on the house, would suggest they werre warned.

    Asking me to "prove" something that only Israeli intelligence and the residents know, is obviously your pathetic attempt to appear like the victor in a conversation you have obviously lost.

    Using red font etc won't help your cause.

    Gazan residents themselves have said they're getting phone call warnings.
    The issue here is not if warnings are given. The issue here is about the time between the warning and the time when the bomb drops.

    Given that I have given evidence that the time length is around 57 sec, I can't really see how that is enough time to evacuate.
 
 
 
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