The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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Tanqueray91
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#6001
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#6001
(Original post by Actaeon)
But you see, that puts you on exactly the same level as them
Terrorists are happy to kill and torture people because they've dehumanised the enemy. Now you're happy to kill and torture in turn because you've done precisely the same thing. It's because we're not terrorists that we don't sink to their level.
I don't see terrorists as the enemy. And the difference between me and terrorists, is that they ultimately don't care who gets hurt when they are trying to kill people - I'm not going around saying that everyone should be dead, just certain people
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Actaeon
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#6002
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#6002
To be honest, I don't really think selective killing is any better than random killing - it still involves the decision that you have the right to end someone's life. Dictators like Stalin were often extremely selective about the people they wanted dead...
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tehFrance
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#6003
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#6003
I support torture, murder of terrorists, and locking up political opponents
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thehistorybore
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#6004
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#6004
(Original post by tehFrance)
I support torture, murder of terrorists, and locking up political opponents
Perhaps create a new fascist party?
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tehFrance
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#6005
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#6005
(Original post by thehistorybore)
Perhaps create a new fascist party?
I'm not a fascist, I just hate terrorists!

Also #NSDIRECT failed hilariously on twitter last night. It's incredibly funny to watch
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tehFrance
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#6006
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#6006
(Original post by Aph)
Am I a fox or a fairy???
Yes you're a fairy!
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Tanqueray91
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#6007
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#6007
(Original post by tehFrance)
I support torture, murder of terrorists, and locking up political opponents
Finally someone that speaks sense
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KingStannis
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#6008
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#6008
(Original post by James Milibanter)
  1. Social liberalism is a political ideology that seeks to find a balance between individual liberty and social justice.

What's your point? It wasn't around when Locke was.
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KingStannis
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#6009
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#6009
(Original post by James Milibanter)
Wrong again.
So you fundamentally disagree with pretty much everything your Party is saying right now?
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James Milibanter
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#6010
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#6010
(Original post by KingStannis)
What's your point? It wasn't around when Locke was.
You said that he wasn't a social liberal. If you see what a social liberal actually is, then you'd know that he actually was.

I'm just pissed off because you see yourself as somehow more qualified to tell me my own political beliefs than myself.

I admire John Locke, and agree with him on a lot of issues. Just leave it at that and let me be.
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KingStannis
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#6011
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#6011
(Original post by James Milibanter)
You said that he wasn't a social liberal. If you see what a social liberal actually is, then you'd know that he actually was.

I'm just pissed off because you see yourself as somehow more qualified to tell me my own political beliefs than myself.

I admire John Locke, and agree with him on a lot of issues. Just leave it at that and let me be.
..As i said, it wasn't around when he was, so it's literally impossible for him to be one.
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James Milibanter
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#6012
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#6012
(Original post by KingStannis)
So you fundamentally disagree with pretty much everything your Party is saying right now?
I disagree with a lot.
2 examples...
The party want to elect the house of lords: I don't
The party want to raise taxes: I don't
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KingStannis
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#6013
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#6013
(Original post by James Milibanter)
I disagree with a lot.
2 examples...
The party want to elect the house of lords: I don't
The party want to raise taxes: I don't
Fair enough then, but i can't see what you do agree with from their policies. What do you agree with?
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James Milibanter
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#6014
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#6014
(Original post by KingStannis)
..As i said, it wasn't around when he was, so it's literally impossible for him to be one.
It's impossible for him to be a self acclaimed social liberal. But if there are parallels in his ideology with social liberalism, then that makes him one. Social liberalism may not have existed but he still subscribed to the views
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James Milibanter
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#6015
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#6015
(Original post by KingStannis)
Fair enough then, but i can't see what you do agree with from their policies. What do you agree with?
The principles of economic and environmental sustainability. Also, greater ties with Europe and the commonwealth.
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KingStannis
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#6016
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#6016
(Original post by James Milibanter)
It's impossible for him to be a self acclaimed social liberal. But if there are parallels in his ideology with social liberalism, then that makes him one. Social liberalism may not have existed but he still subscribed to the views
But since he's the Father of classical liberalism, to which social liberalism is opposed, I can't see how this could be the case.
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KingStannis
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#6017
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#6017
(Original post by James Milibanter)
The principles of economic and environmental sustainability. Also, greater ties with Europe and the commonwealth.
Impossible without a large state.
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James Milibanter
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#6018
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#6018
(Original post by KingStannis)
But since he's the Father of classical liberalism, to which social liberalism is opposed, I can't see how this could be the case.
Well classical liberalism is centre right and social liberalism is centre left. Other than that I can't see many fundamental differences. Social liberalism is a political ideology that seeks to find a balance between individual liberty and social justice. Like classical liberalism, social liberalism endorses a market economy and the expansion of civil and political rights and liberties, but differs in that it believes the legitimate role of the government includes addressing economic and social issues such as poverty, health care and education. On the other hand Classical liberalism is a political ideology, a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with Representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedom. So you can see how someone (such as myself, and arguably John Locke) can subscribe to both sets of beliefs.
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James Milibanter
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#6019
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#6019
(Original post by KingStannis)
Impossible without a large state.
Not true at all. Both can be achieved without any state, and I'd argue that such a large state hinders rather than helps.
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KingStannis
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#6020
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#6020
(Original post by James Milibanter)
Well classical liberalism is centre right and social liberalism is centre left. Other than that I can't see many fundamental differences. Social liberalism is a political ideology that seeks to find a balance between individual liberty and social justice. Like classical liberalism, social liberalism endorses a market economy and the expansion of civil and political rights and liberties, but differs in that it believes the legitimate role of the government includes addressing economic and social issues such as poverty, health care and education. On the other hand Classical liberalism is a political ideology, a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with Representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedom. So you can see how someone (such as myself, and arguably John Locke) can subscribe to both sets of beliefs.
That's a bigger difference than you seem to think. The in bold are irreconcilable, unless you significantly limit the latter.
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