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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Lovren, Lallana and Can seem to be the players who have improved a lot under Klopp. Sakho still switches between being great and terrible.

    We'll have to see how Matip settles in. We know that he'll get a full pre-season with us (since he's signed a pre-contract and he plays for Cameroon internationally) which is a big plus.

    I wonder if we should be playing Sakho against the bottom half of the table where he has more chances to pass out from the back and then Lovren in the other games when we just want someone who will defend?

    The last 9* games of the season for both players to stake their claim..
    Lovren has been outright magnificent under Klopp, and our best player after Firmino. No idea what the writer is referring to with 'a few games'. Sakho is monster player on form but he's been up and down all season, and they've been pretty notable downs.

    CB isn't usually a position where you tend to rotate based on the opposition. Continuity, and the communication, familiarity and instincts that come wit it, is the bedrock of a good back four. Due to Europe we will have to rotate at some point but I'd rather our best defenders on the pitch at all times, leaving the burden of passing out from the back, and turning on the ball, to our midfield pairing.

    Skrtel will almost definitely leave, Joe Gomez could step in as the fourth CB if Sakho and Kolo both also leave.
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    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    Lovren has been outright magnificent under Klopp, and our best player after Firmino. No idea what the writer is referring to with 'a few games'. Sakho is monster player on form but he's been up and down all season, and they've been pretty notable downs.

    CB isn't usually a position where you tend to rotate based on the opposition. Continuity, and the communication, familiarity and instincts that come wit it, is the bedrock of a good back four. Due to Europe we will have to rotate at some point but I'd rather our best defenders on the pitch at all times, leaving the burden of passing out from the back, and turning on the ball, to our midfield pairing.

    Skrtel will almost definitely leave, Joe Gomez could step in as the fourth CB if Sakho and Kolo both also leave.
    Not sure I'd go as far as magnificent. Looking more like the £20mil player we paid for though. Dunno, I'd still say Coutinho and Lallana have done better than Lovren.

    Yea true. We could really do with settling the back line but only Clyne is probably guaranteed a spot for next season. Everyone wants Mignolet to be changed/dropped. Matip will come in new. People expect a new LB to compete with Moreno. And then we don't know if it will be Sakho or Lovren. Annoying that we can't nail down any sort of consistency.

    On a recent TAW podcast, they were saying that Kolo is really well liked at the club by the players and staff alike. All the younger players go to him for questions. Maybe time we move him into an academy role? I think he's already doing his coaching badges. I wouldn't want to go into next season with Gomez as 4th choice.. he hasn't played at CB yet and he'll have spent most of a season out with injury.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    On a recent TAW podcast, they were saying that Kolo is really well liked at the club by the players and staff alike. All the younger players go to him for questions. Maybe time we move him into an academy role? I think he's already doing his coaching badges. I wouldn't want to go into next season with Gomez as 4th choice.. he hasn't played at CB yet and he'll have spent most of a season out with injury.
    I've always been wary of moving on stalwarts/experienced heads with little thought. It's easy to look at Kolo and think "well, he doesn't offer us anything", but we can't underestimate his wealth of experience/knowledge.

    It's a similar thing with Lucas. Sure, he probably isn't first name on the teamsheet for any Liverpool fan in the world, but he has been with us so long - and I've heard he's massive for morale, bridging the gap between the English guys and South Americans.

    Reportedly, Firmino and Coutinho regularly head to Lucas' for get togethers, family events etc. What would it do to that pair, and their familiarity with the club and city, and overall happiness/morale, if Lucas just departed?

    We heard Reina discuss how down he was when Torres and Alonso left...
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    I've always been wary of moving on stalwarts/experienced heads with little thought. It's easy to look at Kolo and think "well, he doesn't offer us anything", but we can't underestimate his wealth of experience/knowledge.

    It's a similar thing with Lucas. Sure, he probably isn't first name on the teamsheet for any Liverpool fan in the world, but he has been with us so long - and I've heard he's massive for morale, bridging the gap between the English guys and South Americans.

    Reportedly, Firmino and Coutinho regularly head to Lucas' for get togethers, family events etc. What would it do to that pair, and their familiarity with the club and city, and overall happiness/morale, if Lucas just departed?

    We heard Reina discuss how down he was when Torres and Alonso left...
    I guess as fans you only see the end product of the match and not all the day-to-day things going on. Gomez has spoken about how training post-injury has been so much easier as Ings is doing the same things.

    Skrtel doesn't seem to have the same kind of reputation though - he's our 2nd longest serving player and has plenty of experience.

    I'd really like us to have a big squad for once which doesn't stop our system from working each time one player gets injured.

    We've seen our over-reliance of Sturridge for 2 years. Similarly we rely a lot on Coutinho as our best player. But currently if Henderson or Can are out, our midfield doesn't look anything like what we want.

    We need to be adding numbers to the squad with quality while retaining all the decent players now.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    We need to be adding numbers to the squad with quality while retaining all the decent players now.
    Which is why people advocating selling Sakho, Sturridge or Henderson are complete tools. Remove the weak links and misfits from the squad; Benteke, Skrtel, one of Milner and Allen (both been good this season but there isn't space for both), and relegate the likes of Lallana, Henderson, Moreno, Mignolet (decent/inconsistent players) to the bench.

    We have an excess of money and teams don't progress by selling their best players.
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    No Gundogan for Dortmund on Thursday. He's injured and the game will come too soon for him, apparently.
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    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    Which is why people advocating selling Sakho, Sturridge or Henderson are complete tools. Remove the weak links and misfits from the squad; Benteke, Skrtel, one of Milner and Allen (both been good this season but there isn't space for both), and relegate the likes of Lallana, Henderson, Moreno, Mignolet (decent/inconsistent players) to the bench.

    We have an excess of money and teams don't progress by selling their best players.
    Agree with this. I expect we'll see Allen leave and go to whichever club Rodgers is appointed at. I'd keep Milner just because of his experience at Man City and he can fulfill so many positions.

    Hopefully Klopp has the same idea. Tbh of our last set of managers, Klopp seems the most coherent in terms of plans. Rodgers was developing and didn't have the standing to do what he wanted. Kenny had a mismatch of ideas (and buying English). Hodgson was a joke. Last manager with a plan was Rafa.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Agree with this. I expect we'll see Allen leave and go to whichever club Rodgers is appointed at. I'd keep Milner just because of his experience at Man City and he can fulfill so many positions.

    Hopefully Klopp has the same idea. Tbh of our last set of managers, Klopp seems the most coherent in terms of plans. Rodgers was developing and didn't have the standing to do what he wanted. Kenny had a mismatch of ideas (and buying English). Hodgson was a joke. Last manager with a plan was Rafa.
    Ironic that Allen never consistently played well for Rodgers' Liverpool ('Gerrard' is not a fair excuse) but is usually our best midfielder on the pitch under Klopp and has generally been excellent for Wales throughout.
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    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    Lovren has been outright magnificent under Klopp, and our best player after Firmino. No idea what the writer is referring to with 'a few games'. Sakho is monster player on form but he's been up and down all season, and they've been pretty notable downs.

    CB isn't usually a position where you tend to rotate based on the opposition. Continuity, and the communication, familiarity and instincts that come wit it, is the bedrock of a good back four. Due to Europe we will have to rotate at some point but I'd rather our best defenders on the pitch at all times, leaving the burden of passing out from the back, and turning on the ball, to our midfield pairing.

    Skrtel will almost definitely leave, Joe Gomez could step in as the fourth CB if Sakho and Kolo both also leave.
    Imagine thinking you'll get Europe
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Imagine thinking you'll get Europe
    If United or West Ham win the FA cup, we have a very good chance. Even then we are 6 points behind West Ham with one game less played and they have a harder fixture list than us.
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    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    Ironic that Allen never consistently played well for Rodgers' Liverpool ('Gerrard' is not a fair excuse) but is usually our best midfielder on the pitch under Klopp and has generally been excellent for Wales throughout.
    You don't think Gerrard is a fair excuse? I don't think Rodgers would've bought Allen if he knew Gerrard wanted to move back into a deeper role. I think Allen struggled after that because he never played in his favoured position.

    Disagree about that - Allen has looked good/great at times under Klopp but there's a reason why he's been unable to dislodge Can/Henderson.

    (Original post by difeo)
    Imagine thinking you'll get Europe
    Gonna win the Europa League :awesome:

    Still a chance we can finish 5th/6th or even 7th if Man Utd/West Ham win the FA Cup (runner up no longer gets EL spot). Either of Man Utd/West Ham would be favourites to win the FA Cup from here on imo.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    You don't think Gerrard is a fair excuse? I don't think Rodgers would've bought Allen if he knew Gerrard wanted to move back into a deeper role. I think Allen struggled after that because he never played in his favoured position.

    Disagree about that - Allen has looked good/great at times under Klopp but there's a reason why he's been unable to dislodge Can/Henderson.
    Gerrard didn't want to/know he had to until after Rodgers was appointed, it's a blameless situation. And Allen was actually pretty decent alongside Gerrard for the first two months of Rodgers debut season. He only failed after that because of a lack of confidence, if he was playing well enough then space would have been found for him in the team. He's worked well in different roles since then, not just as the playmaker (as opposed to the destroyer) in a 2 man midfield, which is the position Gerrard took that season.

    After that, Allen has variously worked well at the sides of a diamond, in a 3 man midfield, and in a 2 man with Henderson. Gerrard was a factor but there was plenty of opportunity for Rodgers to create a team that used Allen well, and it never materialised but for a few games at a time in each of his seasons.

    Name me two games Allen has had under Klopp. He's been great because of the role he's played, which is closing off the midfield from off the bench. It doesn't make him our best starting option or a long term player for Klopp due to his lack of physicality, but he's still been our best midfielder. Henderson's been shite on the whole, much improved on Sunday.
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    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    Gerrard didn't want to/know he had to until after Rodgers was appointed, it's a blameless situation. And Allen was actually pretty decent alongside Gerrard for the first two months of Rodgers debut season. He only failed after that because of a lack of confidence, if he was playing well enough then space would have been found for him in the team. He's worked well in different roles since then, not just as the playmaker (as opposed to the destroyer) in a 2 man midfield, which is the position Gerrard took that season.

    After that, Allen has variously worked well at the sides of a diamond, in a 3 man midfield, and in a 2 man with Henderson. Gerrard was a factor but there was plenty of opportunity for Rodgers to create a team that used Allen well, and it never materialised but for a few games at a time in each of his seasons.

    Name me two games Allen has had under Klopp. He's been great because of the role he's played, which is closing off the midfield from off the bench. It doesn't make him our best starting option or a long term player for Klopp due to his lack of physicality, but he's still been our best midfielder. Henderson's been shite on the whole, much improved on Sunday.
    Maybe Gerrard had already decided he wanted to play deeper but Rodgers didn't know. He had already spoken about Gerrard being part of the attacking front 4 players to the press when he first got the job.

    Certain players play well in more suited roles for them. Ofcourse there are those great players who can play anywhere. The reality is that Allen rarely played the position at Liverpool where he'd had so much success at Swansea with. The same role he plays for Wales.

    Rodgers obviously thought Allen wasn't good enough to create a team around. Unless you're a star player, it doesn't happen. We saw Rodgers change his formation to get the best out of Suarez and Sturridge but Allen never showed that quality. He might have done well in odd games here and there but he never fulfilled any promise during his Liverpool career.

    Surely the fact that Allen can't get Klopp to give him starts/90 minutes tells you everything? If he was our best midfield player, why isn't he getting more game time? Your logic makes no sense. Our best midfield player but he should come off the bench? Your best players always make it onto the pitch. Why is Coutinho rarely left out even when tired/fitness/injury etc? Because he's our best player.
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    Sinclair Watford-bound, apparently. Not bothered in the slightest. A move is clearly best for him, and he has Aidy Ward as his agent (infamously).
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Maybe Gerrard had already decided he wanted to play deeper but Rodgers didn't know. He had already spoken about Gerrard being part of the attacking front 4 players to the press when he first got the job.
    He said that during/after preseason, when he'd undoubtedly met Gerrard and discussed plans.

    Rodgers obviously thought Allen wasn't good enough to create a team around. Unless you're a star player, it doesn't happen. We saw Rodgers change his formation to get the best out of Suarez and Sturridge but Allen never showed that quality. He might have done well in odd games here and there but he never fulfilled any promise during his Liverpool career.
    You don't need to create a team around Allen, just create a midfield in which he works. Klopp hasn't centered one on him and Allen's been undeniably excellent. I don't know where you're leading this portion of the discussion but previously you tried to blame it all on Gerrard and I'm saying that's incorrect and the relative failure of Allen's career here is on Rodgers and Allen's own inconsistency.

    Surely the fact that Allen can't get Klopp to give him starts/90 minutes tells you everything? If he was our best midfield player, why isn't he getting more game time? Your logic makes no sense. Our best midfield player but he should come off the bench? Your best players always make it onto the pitch. Why is Coutinho rarely left out even when tired/fitness/injury etc? Because he's our best player.
    He's been our best midfielder, based off his performances, this season. That's not to say that Can or Henderson aren't capable of a higher level, or should be performing to a higher level, or have a higher ceiling, or that you can judge Klopp's opinion as definitively the right one, or that Allen would be better over 90 minutes due to his energy being a big plus point when he plays, or that Can/Henderson despite being inconsistent (except Can after the turn of the year) are not adding something to the team that Allen wouldn't (ie height, at set pieces and GKs, or physicality), or that Klopp feels that his captain and future captain should be on the pitch, or that their potential needs nurturing in that role, that Allen regardless of his performances should stay in the team, or that Allen may only excel in his current role with more limited minutes only because he's used in situations that match his skill set.

    There are umpteen explanations. I think you're viewing this narrow-mindedly. Look at Herrera being magnificent for United and yet being a bench player. Allen's only really come off the bench for us but has been near-unfailingly excellent. He doesn't really fit in with Klopp's midfield requirements though and I'm fine with Klopp preferring Henderson and Can as his long term options.
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    Got a ticket for the Stoke game
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    I know it's not really my place, as an Arsenal fan..

    ..but lol

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    (Original post by SA-1)
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    I know it's not really my place, as an Arsenal fan..

    ..but lol

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Shame it's not true!!
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Shame it's not true!!
    Do you ever sleep?

    You post until midnight, then I see random posts at 4am before you start your day again at 7.

    Brb full time TSR poster
 
 
 
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