Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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NDGAARONDI
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#6061
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#6061
I'm English and I voted yes to Scotland to be independent. Why? **** off.
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billydisco
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#6062
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#6062
Its bad BUT the silver lining is that Labour will lose 41 MPs and the Tories only 1.....

Decreases the probability of Labour getting in to Government = good
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billydisco
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#6063
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#6063
(Original post by Midlander)
I come from a city which has returned 3 Labour MPs (and a socialist) for 40 years. Labour has not needed Scotland to get in and the socialist policies put in place by the SNP are made possible a) by Barnett formula funding and b) because the demand for places at Scottish universities is so much smaller. Note that these universities immediately raised their RUK fees to £9k because they make such a loss on Scots.

Vast swathes of England are not nailed on Tory seats and Brighton elected a Green in 2010. To brand English people as inherently more Tory is just plain daft.


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The land area of ALL Labour's English seats would barely cover East Sussex, West Sussex and Kent!
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Psyk
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#6064
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(Original post by billydisco)
The land area of ALL Labour's English seats would barely cover East Sussex, West Sussex and Kent!
So what? It's not very meaningful to think of it in terms of land area when it's people who vote, not pieces of land.
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billydisco
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#6065
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#6065
(Original post by iJDB)
I do not actually have a genuine disliking towards England - my point was that whether or not a person dislikes England is not a reason to vote for or against independence so stop trying to turn this into Scotland versus England! It was an anti-independence poster that decided to bring that up, not me. You clearly took it out of context. I don't care who posted the facts, facts are facts. Can people please stop rambling on about constituency crap?! I know how it works and my point was that Scotland as a whole has no effect on general elections - we do not have to go into constituencies to identify that. Scotland, GENERALLY, is a Labour country. Labour achieve the majority of the seats (41 compared to the Conservative's 1 and LibDems 11) therefore we are LABOUR! You don't have to go into constituencies to identify that. This anti-English argument is simply untrue spiralled from egocentrism. Would people stop flattering themselves into believing that this is all about English rivalry when it's quite blatantly about the fact that London controls the whole of the UK. Why else would several Englishmen befriend Scots and encourage them to escape the union while they have the chance.
and do you accept that "Labour" means socialism, lower skilled workforce and most of the population dependent on the state for income (via handouts or public sector jobs)?

I can honestly not see how anyone could see the above as being sensible/sustainable!
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billydisco
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#6066
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#6066
(Original post by Psyk)
So what? It's not very meaningful to think of it in terms of land area when it's people who vote, not pieces of land.
(Original post by Midlander)
Vast swathes of England are not nailed on Tory seats
..
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Midlander
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#6067
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(Original post by billydisco)
The land area of ALL Labour's English seats would barely cover East Sussex, West Sussex and Kent!
That's because Tory seats are big rural areas with low population density whereas Labour voters tend to live in urbanised areas with smaller boundaries. Oh, and the area you describe isn't exactly someone's back garden.


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Midlander
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#6068
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#6068
(Original post by billydisco)
..
Ah, pedantry.


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billydisco
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#6069
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#6069
(Original post by Midlander)
That's because Tory seats are big rural areas with low population density whereas Labour voters tend to live in urbanised areas with smaller boundaries. Oh, and the area you describe isn't exactly someone's back garden.


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But what does it tell you when Tory seats are scattered ALL over the country? England is a Conservative country! People from up in Northumberland, down to the South-West all follow Conservative ideology.

Who follows Labour ideology? Only those who have no money in London, small part of the Midlands and a small part of the North West......

How about this? I would wager your average Labour supporter is less smart than your average Conservative supporter. Therefore how can a political party voted in by the less-smart people be any good?!?!
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Jordooooom
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#6070
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#6070
(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
I'm English and I voted yes to Scotland to be independent. Why? **** off.
Awww don't cry
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Midlander
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#6071
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(Original post by billydisco)
But what does it tell you when Tory seats are scattered ALL over the country? England is a Conservative country! People from up in Northumberland, down to the South-West all follow Conservative ideology.

Who follows Labour ideology? Only those who have no money in London, small part of the Midlands and a small part of the North West......

How about this? I would wager your average Labour supporter is less smart than your average Conservative supporter. Therefore how can a political party voted in by the less-smart people be any good?!?!
I am doing a PhD in chemistry and vote Labour. Your comment that we all follow the Tory ideology is sickening.


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Cryptographic
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#6072
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#6072
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
I have 15 yes letters with me right now. NONE use the word England on them....
Maybe the YeSNP campaign doesn't revolve around you. :rolleyes:
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Cryptographic
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#6073
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#6073
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
The greater number of scots voted SNP compared to any other individual political party.

The greater number of scots did NOT vote tory compared to any other individual political party.

Yet David Scameron is still the prime minister reposnible for Scotland. You are being silly now. You are being misleading. You are doing what the no campaign do. Mislead...and lie.

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Implying that Yes has a halo. Both sides mislead, however the SNP are more creative about the truth. Then when you go to it's supporters, YES voters are a lot more *cough* untruthful *cough* than most No supporters.


(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
I disagree with that.

Both sides mislead, one more than another.

Only the No campaign have been caught lying. See Margaret thatchers documents that were hidden for years. The No campaign denied their existence, they were then found to exist.

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Idiotic comment, if an englishmen lies, it doesn't mean that the No campaign has lied and visa versa. P.S. The last study shows that support in England is higher for Scottish independence than in Scotland. Therefore by your flawed, stretched and stupid logic, the Yes campaign has lied.
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billydisco
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#6074
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#6074
(Original post by Midlander)
I am doing a PhD in chemistry and vote Labour. Your comment that we all follow the Tory ideology is sickening.


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Where did I say all PhD Chemistry students vote Conservative?
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Midlander
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#6075
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#6075
(Original post by billydisco)
Where did I say all PhD Chemistry students vote Conservative?
You said less intelligent people vote Labour.


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Hugs31
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#6076
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#6076
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26147783

Although this will probably increase the amount of YES votes if the UK are going to go through with this, I can't help but agree with all three of them, Scotland shouldn't be allowed to cherry pick all the perks of being part of the UK for themselves to become independent (can't have it both ways, you're either part of the UK in which case you have the Queen, the £ etc. or you aren't). Surely if they're that reluctant to switch to the Euro (which would almost certainly bankrupt them) they could create their own currency?

Makes me all the more relieved that Andy Murray won Wimbledon before all of this otherwise we'd be waiting another 80 years for a British Wimbledon singles champion because of the gulf in class between him and the rest of Britain's male tennis players.
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Good bloke
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#6077
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(Original post by Hugs31)
Although this will probably increase the amount of YES votes if the UK are going to go through with this,
I would have thought the opposite is true, as people will be put off voting for uncertainty; the SNP has no plan B and is blustering rather than working one out.

In any event, this clarification is inevitable. Any chancellor signing up to the BoE being the lender of last resort for a foreign country would be hanged, drawn and quartered, no matter how convenient that country's use of sterling might be.

An independent Scotland will have to choose between using the pound without currency union, using the euro or having its own currency - just as everyone has been telling Salmond for a long time.
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FinalMH
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#6078
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(Original post by Hugs31)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26147783

Although this will probably increase the amount of YES votes if the UK are going to go through with this
:confused: Why would it?

"She said: "It is a bluff, because if this was to be the position of the Westminster government then it would put them in a position that's at odds with majority public opinion in Scotland, it would put them at odds with majority public opinion in England."

Most English people I have been talking to are completely against Scotland using the pound, no one wants another eurozone fiasco


It does mean that it is highly likely RBS will be moving its HQ to London.
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nixy49
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#6079
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Suggest having a listen to these guys before deciding. Stuff you'll not hear in the main stream media, or the BBC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy_sJyLevQY#t=1412
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Hugs31
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#6080
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#6080
(Original post by FinalMH)
:confused: Why would it?

"She said: "It is a bluff, because if this was to be the position of the Westminster government then it would put them in a position that's at odds with majority public opinion in Scotland, it would put them at odds with majority public opinion in England."

Most English people I have been talking to are completely against Scotland using the pound, no one wants another eurozone fiasco


It does mean that it is highly likely RBS will be moving its HQ to London.
(Original post by Good bloke)
I would have thought the opposite is true, as people will be put off voting for uncertainty; the SNP has no plan B and is blustering rather than working one out.

In any event, this clarification is inevitable. Any chancellor signing up to the BoE being the lender of last resort for a foreign country would be hanged, drawn and quartered, no matter how convenient that country's use of sterling might be.

An independent Scotland will have to choose between using the pound without currency union, using the euro or having its own currency - just as everyone has been telling Salmond for a long time.
Well I thought it would increase the YES votes because to me it's like the final nail in the coffin. this is almost like Osbourne, Balls and Alexander consenting based on one condition so it could act as a motivator. In essence all Scotland wants is independence and a currency union where most decisions regarding finances will be made in London does not support their motives for leaving the UK.
I ought to have put possibly instead in probably because you're right Salmond doesn't have a Plan B, he's almost built up the entire campaign on the basis that Scotland would get to keep the pound and if they don't then they're basically screwed, which could create uncertainty unless they're all adopting the Kevin Bridges approach that they can have 5 years of independence and then come crawling back if it goes wrong. Is there anything to stop Scotland using the £ informally like the Zimbabwe using the US $?
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