The Commons Bar Mk VIII - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

This discussion is closed.
That Bearded Man
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#6121
Report 4 years ago
#6121
This can only end well!

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...7#post50131937
0
Green_Pink
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#6122
Report 4 years ago
#6122
(Original post by That Bearded Man)
Yes ladies and gentlemen, the Model House of Commons FINALLY joins the AMA craze. We are pleased to announce that we've just abolished the monarchy! Hooray!

Questions?
(Original post by Ruitker)
Please let me interject. This should be renamed to "We just abolished the monarchy via the backdoor despite over 70% of you wanting to keep it in a referendum less than two years ago (we still want your vote in the upcoming GE though), ask us anything."

Yes people, they really did do the above.
(Original post by James222)
two years in the MHoC is 16-20 years in real life.
People join TSR for UCAS applications and then leave, a entirely different set of people

Guys, PLEASE get a grip. Take it from someone who sees both sides here - this is pathetic. You've had your debate in here, we now have the PM making what seems to be a non-partisan attempt to promote the MHoC so don't turn people away with this silly squabbling. If you think what happened is wrong, we can all discuss a solution in here - but if that thread was the first thing I saw about the MHoC and it continues like this, I wouldn't be signing up. There's a time and a place. And this goes for anyone who intends to post similar.
0
James222
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#6123
Report 4 years ago
#6123
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Guys, PLEASE get a grip. Take it from someone who sees both sides here - this is pathetic. You've had your debate in here, we now have the PM making what seems to be a non-partisan attempt to promote the MHoC so don't turn people away with this silly squabbling. If you think what happened is wrong, we can all discuss a solution in here - but if that thread was the first thing I saw about the MHoC and it continues like this, I wouldn't be signing up. There's a time and a place. And this goes for anyone who intends to post similar.
I agree 100% but he started it with big blue writing and I must retort .
0
That Bearded Man
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#6124
Report 4 years ago
#6124
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Guys, PLEASE get a grip. Take it from someone who sees both sides here - this is pathetic. You've had your debate in here, we now have the PM making what seems to be a non-partisan attempt to promote the MHoC so don't turn people away with this silly squabbling. If you think what happened is wrong, we can all discuss a solution in here - but if that thread was the first thing I saw about the MHoC and it continues like this, I wouldn't be signing up. There's a time and a place. And this goes for anyone who intends to post similar.
Christ, this. I'm just hoping for some debate with non-MHOC'ers on what their gut reaction is. Similar to what I wanted my Controversial Bill Amendment to be.
0
Green_Pink
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#6125
Report 4 years ago
#6125
(Original post by James222)
I agree 100% but he started it with big blue writing and I must retort .
I know, but it just alarmed me seeing the whole thing. I'm not sure this was the smartest plan the PM has ever come up with but I'm hoping the right and the left can leave their differences aside for this.
0
Cryptographic
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#6126
Report 4 years ago
#6126
Any chance of you deleting your comments on the AMA? Not that I agree with the AMA, it was pretty obvious IMO that it would turn into a fight.

Not even a 'find out how to get involved here' link. -_-

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
James222
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#6127
Report 4 years ago
#6127
I will delete my comments if rutiker does
0
Green_Pink
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#6128
Report 4 years ago
#6128
(Original post by That Bearded Man)
Christ, this. I'm just hoping for some debate with non-MHOC'ers on what their gut reaction is. Similar to what I wanted my Controversial Bill Amendment to be.
Good idea, just maybe not the best timing But whilst I agree with the Members who say the referendum should not have just been ignored without some further debate around it, I'd urge them to leave that dispute to the House and not use it as an oppourtunity to air our dirty laundry. Even without your interventions, this thread is as likely to draw activity from people opposed to the plans as those excited by them - especially now we've already had the point made once. Let's avoid all jumping on board and swamping this place with MHoC'ers when we're really not the target audience.
0
Saracen's Fez
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#6129
Report 4 years ago
#6129
(Original post by That Bearded Man)
This can only end well!
That's what I've said before some of my most controversial acts in this House.
0
Ruitker
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#6130
Report 4 years ago
#6130
(Original post by Green_Pink)
Guys, PLEASE get a grip. Take it from someone who sees both sides here - this is pathetic. You've had your debate in here, we now have the PM making what seems to be a non-partisan attempt to promote the MHoC so don't turn people away with this silly squabbling. If you think what happened is wrong, we can all discuss a solution in here - but if that thread was the first thing I saw about the MHoC and it continues like this, I wouldn't be signing up. There's a time and a place. And this goes for anyone who intends to post similar.
It's funny as you just can't see it. What turns people away is not the squabbles. Turning people away is the lack of debate and differences between the parties.

Unfortunately this game is fundamentally flawed because of the lack of repercussions. In RL MP's across the spectrum try to answer to their voters, they make decision which they think will buy them votes in their constituency. A referendum in RL, although not legally binding, would more than likely force government policy. MP's also need to worry about real world economics, the economy, international competition, unemployment etc... On this game the MP's have a ideology they want to enforce. Economics goes out of the window and any policy regardless of how unsuitable, unworkable, economically damaging it is which fits their ideology is voted through. The Monarchy bill is a good example of it.

The house effectively has only two parties. The left and the right. The left are all in cahoots copying each other's every decision. They all have the same ideology. The right has a different ideology and follows each other. It just so happens the left is larger than the right. I'm actually getting bored of the game because of this. There's no debate, there's no thought, there's no talent, there's no decent bills, there's no detail, there's no operational rules, there's no economy, there's no overall aim, there's no unemployment, there's no Lords, there's no crime which affects decisions, there's no concept of money, there's no competition, there's no fairness, it's just utter nonsense.

The house is mainly full of infantile-like young men arguing over ideologies. MP's aren't debating bills for three days to be able to make a decision. They know how they will vote before the debate. The debate is just a chance to be childish; this applies to everyone I feel. The only way to end this is to have an economic record whereby all bills need to be encountered for and some assumptions made about the effect on the economy of bills. Have the economists here try and follow inflation, make driving down unemployment an aim of the government and give greater accountability. Split the left by banning duel membership of parties. Do the same to the right too but the right only has Bun who is in both. The left has several.

If you want to continue voting in accordance to personal ideology without any consideration for debate. Let's face it, 99% of MP's know how they vote before the debate then continue but the house will only decline. If you want to continue pretending TSR time is 16 years in RL so ignoring a referendum is ok and doesn't actually turn people away then continue, but you are wrong.

I sit here and laugh. You're all concerned about having a debate in UK Politics instead of here to attract attention, ending the squabbles, promoting the house, the 'declining' quality of debate, scandals with dupes, members being banned, mods being antagonized etc... but that's not the problem. YOU ARE! (you being ideological MP's all over the house and not you in particular, Green_Pink.
0
adam9317
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#6131
Report 4 years ago
#6131
(Original post by Ruitker)
It's funny as you just can't see it. What turns people away is not the squabbles. Turning people away is the lack of debate and differences between the parties.

Unfortunately this game is fundamentally flawed because of the lack of repercussions. In RL MP's across the spectrum try to answer to their voters, they make decision which they think will buy them votes in their constituency. A referendum in RL, although not legally binding, would more than likely force government policy. MP's also need to worry about real world economics, the economy, international competition, unemployment etc... On this game the MP's have a ideology they want to enforce. Economics goes out of the window and any policy regardless of how unsuitable, unworkable, economically damaging it is which fits their ideology is voted through. The Monarchy bill is a good example of it.

The house effectively has only two parties. The left and the right. The left are all in cahoots copying each other's every decision. They all have the same ideology. The right has a different ideology and follows each other. It just so happens the left is larger than the right. I'm actually getting bored of the game because of this. There's no debate, there's no thought, there's no talent, there's no decent bills, there's no detail, there's no operational rules, there's no economy, there's no overall aim, there's no unemployment, there's no Lords, there's no crime which affects decisions, there's no concept of money, there's no competition, there's no fairness, it's just utter nonsense.

The house is mainly full of infantile-like young men arguing over ideologies. MP's aren't debating bills for three days to be able to make a decision. They know how they will vote before the debate. The debate is just a chance to be childish; this applies to everyone I feel. The only way to end this is to have an economic record whereby all bills need to be encountered for and some assumptions made about the effect on the economy of bills. Have the economists here try and follow inflation, make driving down unemployment an aim of the government and give greater accountability. Split the left by banning duel membership of parties. Do the same to the right too but the right only has Bun who is in both. The left has several.

If you want to continue voting in accordance to personal ideology without any consideration for debate. Let's face it, 99% of MP's know how they vote before the debate then continue but the house will only decline. If you want to continue pretending TSR time is 16 years in RL so ignoring a referendum is ok and doesn't actually turn people away then continue, but you are wrong.

I sit here and laugh. You're all concerned about having a debate in UK Politics instead of here to attract attention, ending the squabbles, promoting the house, the 'declining' quality of debate, scandals with dupes, members being banned, mods being antagonized etc... but that's not the problem. YOU ARE! (you being ideological MP's all over the house and not you in particular, Green_Pink.
Brilliant words Ruitker.

Couldn't have summed it up better!


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
Green_Pink
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#6132
Report 4 years ago
#6132
(Original post by Ruitker)
It's funny as you just can't see it. What turns people away is not the squabbles. Turning people away is the lack of debate and differences between the parties.

Unfortunately this game is fundamentally flawed because of the lack of repercussions. In RL MP's across the spectrum try to answer to their voters, they make decision which they think will buy them votes in their constituency. A referendum in RL, although not legally binding, would more than likely force government policy. MP's also need to worry about real world economics, the economy, international competition, unemployment etc... On this game the MP's have a ideology they want to enforce. Economics goes out of the window and any policy regardless of how unsuitable, unworkable, economically damaging it is which fits their ideology is voted through. The Monarchy bill is a good example of it.

The house effectively has only two parties. The left and the right. The left are all in cahoots copying each other's every decision. They all have the same ideology. The right has a different ideology and follows each other. It just so happens the left is larger than the right. I'm actually getting bored of the game because of this. There's no debate, there's no thought, there's no talent, there's no decent bills, there's no detail, there's no operational rules, there's no economy, there's no overall aim, there's no unemployment, there's no Lords, there's no crime which affects decisions, there's no concept of money, there's no competition, there's no fairness, it's just utter nonsense.

The house is mainly full of infantile-like young men arguing over ideologies. MP's aren't debating bills for three days to be able to make a decision. They know how they will vote before the debate. The debate is just a chance to be childish; this applies to everyone I feel. The only way to end this is to have an economic record whereby all bills need to be encountered for and some assumptions made about the effect on the economy of bills. Have the economists here try and follow inflation, make driving down unemployment an aim of the government and give greater accountability. Split the left by banning duel membership of parties. Do the same to the right too but the right only has Bun who is in both. The left has several.

If you want to continue voting in accordance to personal ideology without any consideration for debate. Let's face it, 99% of MP's know how they vote before the debate then continue but the house will only decline. If you want to continue pretending TSR time is 16 years in RL so ignoring a referendum is ok and doesn't actually turn people away then continue, but you are wrong.

I sit here and laugh. You're all concerned about having a debate in UK Politics instead of here to attract attention, ending the squabbles, promoting the house, the 'declining' quality of debate, scandals with dupes, members being banned, mods being antagonized etc... but that's not the problem. YOU ARE! (you being ideological MP's all over the house and not you in particular, Green_Pink.
I agree with your points, but the squabbles definitely have an effect too. They simply don't make the place welcoming. There are plenty of issues, but the way to change them is not to de-rail a thread designed to attract the new members many parties here clearly need! MPs and regular users have had AMPLE chance to question the Government on this. It's time for us to step aside, and give those who don't know the place so well a turn.
0
Cryptographic
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#6133
Report 4 years ago
#6133
(Original post by That Bearded Man)
QFA
(Original post by James222)
QFA
(Original post by Ruitker)
QFA
Toys back in the pram and delete your comments, I'm not sure acting like militant/gloating idiots is the best promotion tactic.

Maybe a link saying 'get involved here' just incase people aren't already turned off.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
That Bearded Man
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#6134
Report 4 years ago
#6134
(Original post by Cryptographic)
Toys back in the pram and delete your comments, I'm not sure acting like militant/gloating idiots is the best promotion tactic.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Excuse me?
1
Ruitker
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#6135
Report 4 years ago
#6135
(Original post by Green_Pink)
I agree with your points, but the squabbles definitely have an effect too. They simply don't make the place welcoming. There are plenty of issues, but the way to change them is not to de-rail a thread designed to attract the new members many parties here clearly need! MPs and regular users have had AMPLE chance to question the Government on this. It's time for us to step aside, and give those who don't know the place so well a turn.
The fact 90% of posters on that thread are house members isn't really encouraging. I think people are attracted to the childish drama and squabbles. It's a chance to relive the days on the school playground and copy real life MP's in the house. The obsessing over stopping it is what drives people away.
0
James222
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#6136
Report 4 years ago
#6136
(Original post by Cryptographic)
Toys back in the pram and delete your comments, I'm not sure acting like militant/gloating idiots is the best promotion tactic.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Like I said if other person agrees I will
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#6137
Report 4 years ago
#6137
(Original post by Ruitker)
It's funny as you just can't see it. What turns people away is not the squabbles. Turning people away is the lack of debate and differences between the parties.

Unfortunately this game is fundamentally flawed because of the lack of repercussions. In RL MP's across the spectrum try to answer to their voters, they make decision which they think will buy them votes in their constituency. A referendum in RL, although not legally binding, would more than likely force government policy. MP's also need to worry about real world economics, the economy, international competition, unemployment etc... On this game the MP's have a ideology they want to enforce. Economics goes out of the window and any policy regardless of how unsuitable, unworkable, economically damaging it is which fits their ideology is voted through. The Monarchy bill is a good example of it.

The house effectively has only two parties. The left and the right. The left are all in cahoots copying each other's every decision. They all have the same ideology. The right has a different ideology and follows each other. It just so happens the left is larger than the right. I'm actually getting bored of the game because of this. There's no debate, there's no thought, there's no talent, there's no decent bills, there's no detail, there's no operational rules, there's no economy, there's no overall aim, there's no unemployment, there's no Lords, there's no crime which affects decisions, there's no concept of money, there's no competition, there's no fairness, it's just utter nonsense.

The house is mainly full of infantile-like young men arguing over ideologies. MP's aren't debating bills for three days to be able to make a decision. They know how they will vote before the debate. The debate is just a chance to be childish; this applies to everyone I feel. The only way to end this is to have an economic record whereby all bills need to be encountered for and some assumptions made about the effect on the economy of bills. Have the economists here try and follow inflation, make driving down unemployment an aim of the government and give greater accountability. Split the left by banning duel membership of parties. Do the same to the right too but the right only has Bun who is in both. The left has several.

If you want to continue voting in accordance to personal ideology without any consideration for debate. Let's face it, 99% of MP's know how they vote before the debate then continue but the house will only decline. If you want to continue pretending TSR time is 16 years in RL so ignoring a referendum is ok and doesn't actually turn people away then continue, but you are wrong.

I sit here and laugh. You're all concerned about having a debate in UK Politics instead of here to attract attention, ending the squabbles, promoting the house, the 'declining' quality of debate, scandals with dupes, members being banned, mods being antagonized etc... but that's not the problem. YOU ARE! (you being ideological MP's all over the house and not you in particular, Green_Pink.

So basically... you didn't want the Monarchy Bill to pass.
0
Ruitker
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#6138
Report 4 years ago
#6138
(Original post by RayApparently)
So basically... you didn't want the Monarchy Bill to pass.
That's obvious but basically the lack of lines between the parties, worthwhile debate, monetary record, accountability and obsessions over the wrong things is what's killing this house.
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#6139
Report 4 years ago
#6139
(Original post by Ruitker)
That's obvious but basically the lack of lines between the parties, worthwhile debate, monetary record, accountability and obsessions over the wrong things is what's killing this house.
The lack of lines may well change next term and you can't exactly tell a coalition government not to be united. By political standards we've been incredibly successful. You sound sore.
There's plenty of debate going on. Put up a bill and we'll debate on it. The transport and defence proposals this Government have just published are very debate worthy.
There's not much anyone can do about the messed up monetary record - except perhaps a repeal and/or the application of Jarred's proposals.
Accountability... this is a MHoC.
What things?
0
Ruitker
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#6140
Report 4 years ago
#6140
(Original post by RayApparently)
The lack of lines may well change next term and you can't exactly tell a coalition government not to be united. By political standards we've been incredibly successful. You sound sore.
There's plenty of debate going on. Put up a bill and we'll debate on it. The transport and defence proposals this Government have just published are very debate worthy.
There's not much anyone can do about the messed up monetary record - except perhaps a repeal and/or the application of Jarred's proposals.
Accountability... this is a MHoC.
What things?
A coalition is understandable but not to the point where joint members are common and the differences between Labour, Greens and Socialists is not noticeable. The Lib Dems and Cons are in coalition but we can still see their differences. It's the left in general in this house.

It's debate worthy but no debate actually happens. Debate is about taking into account arguments and adjusting your opinions accordingly. The 'debate' on this game involves both sides telling the other side why they're wrong. That's not debate, that's stupidity. To debate the first thing you need to do is accept and argue to explore where it's coming from; not instantly rebut it.

A recent example is the monarchy bill. EXAMPLE:

Person 1: You ignored the referendum - valid point

Person 2: But TSR time is 16 years in real life so it's ok. - pathetic response and all rebuttal. NOT DEBATE

Model Person 2 Answer: explores whether a legitimate decision can be made without the collective will of the people and what duty the government has in response to the people following a referendum. Includes the ethics and philosophy of a referendum and leadership - good answer, interesting start to a debate.

Rebuttal from both sides shows each side has already made up their mind and doesn't want to consider the other side.

Things: squabbles, drama, scandals, dupes, trying to sound proper with that fake address used in ATS, being polite.

Stop obsessing over those things and accept the drama, scandals, personal insults is what attracts people to the house. It makes it more of a game and not a tedious chore. The weird speak in ASA which not even real MP's use is hilarious.
0
X
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you like exams?

Yes (172)
18.59%
No (560)
60.54%
Not really bothered about them (193)
20.86%

Watched Threads

View All