Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#6161
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#6161
(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
I think the UK is well within it's rights and should take a hard line with the SNP and the independence campaign.

In the possible event of Scottish independence then the rest of the UK should shut Scotland out in the cold. Scotland will have absolutely no rights to any free rides from the RUK.

Border checks. Stringent ones.

No currency union. Invent your own money.

No cooperation and agreement on sharing anything. Your independent, this is the reality.

Every asset of the UK than can be moved from Scotland should be moved.

It should push hard to ensure Scotland should have to start from as close to scratch as possible.

Use it's influence to ensure Scotland must re-apply to international organizations and such from the beginning. Full EU accession process. The works. If Scotland wants to go it alone it has to earn it like every other country.

Scotland should ideally be kept outside of NATO if the RUK can manage it.

No duel citizenship so that people who chose Scottish passports lose their UK ones.

It should also encourage as much business and talent to move from Scotland to the RUK, to boost the already inevitable tide of people and capital from the country southwards.


These suggestions aren't out of malice or spite but simple reality. If Scotland can't go it alone and survive entirely on it's own two feet then it doesn't deserve independence does it? The SNP's attempts to get independence knowing full well Scotland can't cope and prosper that way is treason, not to the queen or the UK, but to the people of Scotland.
What you said is what SHOULD happen, but the UK gov cant even keep terrorists out of the country and kick out radicals, they are far too incompetent to run an actual border unfortunately.
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1tartanarmy
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#6162
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#6162
(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
I think the UK is well within it's rights and should take a hard line with the SNP and the independence campaign.

In the possible event of Scottish independence then the rest of the UK should shut Scotland out in the cold. Scotland will have absolutely no rights to any free rides from the RUK.

Border checks. Stringent ones.

No currency union. Invent your own money.

No cooperation and agreement on sharing anything. Your independent, this is the reality.

Every asset of the UK than can be moved from Scotland should be moved.

It should push hard to ensure Scotland should have to start from as close to scratch as possible.

Use it's influence to ensure Scotland must re-apply to international organizations and such from the beginning. Full EU accession process. The works. If Scotland wants to go it alone it has to earn it like every other country.

Scotland should ideally be kept outside of NATO if the RUK can manage it.

No duel citizenship so that people who chose Scottish passports lose their UK ones.

It should also encourage as much business and talent to move from Scotland to the RUK, to boost the already inevitable tide of people and capital from the country southwards.


These suggestions aren't out of malice or spite but simple reality. If Scotland can't go it alone and survive entirely on it's own two feet then it doesn't deserve independence does it? The SNP's attempts to get independence knowing full well Scotland can't cope and prosper that way is treason, not to the queen or the UK, but to the people of Scotland.
Hardly a response that shows a "better together" attitude. Thankfully anyone with any reasonable line of thought doesn't think the way you do.

Why borders with an independent Scotland? Why? Why? I repeat...if its not spite...then whats the rationale here?

Do you want border controls to be set up with republic of Ireland? Right now there isn't any. What reason is there that you should have one with Scotland and not Ireland? Wheres your rationale if its not spite?

I guess it is spite.
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VladThe1mpaler
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#6163
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#6163
(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
I think the UK is well within it's rights and should take a hard line with the SNP and the independence campaign.

In the possible event of Scottish independence then the rest of the UK should shut Scotland out in the cold. Scotland will have absolutely no rights to any free rides from the RUK.

Border checks. Stringent ones.

No currency union. Invent your own money.

No cooperation and agreement on sharing anything. Your independent, this is the reality.

Every asset of the UK than can be moved from Scotland should be moved.

It should push hard to ensure Scotland should have to start from as close to scratch as possible.

Use it's influence to ensure Scotland must re-apply to international organizations and such from the beginning. Full EU accession process. The works. If Scotland wants to go it alone it has to earn it like every other country.

Scotland should ideally be kept outside of NATO if the RUK can manage it.

No duel citizenship so that people who chose Scottish passports lose their UK ones.

It should also encourage as much business and talent to move from Scotland to the RUK, to boost the already inevitable tide of people and capital from the country southwards.


These suggestions aren't out of malice or spite but simple reality. If Scotland can't go it alone and survive entirely on it's own two feet then it doesn't deserve independence does it? The SNP's attempts to get independence knowing full well Scotland can't cope and prosper that way is treason, not to the queen or the UK, but to the people of Scotland.
Some of these things are insane. The majority of things that you listed sound completely out of spite and would destroy Scotland's relationship with the UK.
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Jordooooom
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#6164
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#6164
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
Some of these things are insane. The majority of things that you listed sound completely out of spite and would destroy Scotland's relationship with the UK.
It's funny, because it's people like him and that are encouraging more people to vote yes.
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Oldcon1953
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#6165
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#6165
(Original post by SciFiRory)
yes, very, a head of state, even a ceremonial one has a great deal of power (notional or not). probably some people would, though that would essentially make the UK a totalitarian monarchy if they did use those powers, so I would say it's pretty unlikely. technically I think there is no official "veto" but like I said the queen can essentially do so if she chose not to give a piece of legislation royal assent, though again this hasn't happened in well over a century. the UK system is fairly complicated and has bits that are very old and others that are very new tbh, I mean the House of Lords can technically block legislation and send it back to the Commons to be reviewed, but the Commons via the Parliament act can over-ride this as well, which essentially makes the House of Lords rather toothless, though in reality most legislation passes through it first time because whichever party is in power just appoints a ton more lords to have a majority in both houses, which is pretty dodgy in of itself (not to mention the Lords as with the monarchy have no public mandate as they have never been elected or even subject to a referendum on their powers). the only bit of the UK legislature that is in any way "democratic" is the House of Commons which is elected every 4/5 years by the public (though this itself is dubious as a process due to boundaries and the voting system used)
Thank you. That explained it quite nicely. I've been hearing for a number of years that some people over there wanted to do away completely with the Royal Family but I've always thought they could prove useful if ever social breakdown, war or some such calamity made normal government workings impossible. Sort of like having a spare tire if you should ever have a flat. LOL
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1tartanarmy
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#6166
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#6166
(Original post by Jordooooom)
It's funny, because it's people like him and that are encouraging more people to vote yes.
Not sure your position but regardless posters like that are music to my ears. They don't realise how much this scare tactics and bullying like comments push people away from better together. Better together are losing trust left right and center.

Whats next...vote yes and Scotland will be attacked by planet Earth...
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flugelr
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#6167
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#6167
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Why borders with an independent Scotland? Why? Why? I repeat...if its not spite...then whats the rationale here?
If England votes to leave the EU there could very well be border controls.
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1tartanarmy
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#6168
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#6168
(Original post by flugelr)
If England votes to leave the EU there could very well be border controls.
Agreed, so why try to scare voters with border talk, but fail to point out that if we vote no, then Englands vote could force scotland to have borders on not one coutry...but the rest of the EU.

Double standards much?
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flugelr
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#6169
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#6169
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Agreed, so why try to scare voters with border talk, but fail to point out that if we vote no, then Englands vote could force scotland to have borders on not one coutry...but the rest of the EU.

Double standards much?
Personally I think one of the first things an independent Scotland should do is have an EU referendum. If we are going to intergrate more into the EU then I feel that should be a choice made by the people of Scotland.
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CFL2013
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#6170
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#6170
Oh, you're economically illiterate. Sorry, didn't realise.
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Midlander
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#6171
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#6171
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Agreed, so why try to scare voters with border talk, but fail to point out that if we vote no, then Englands vote could force scotland to have borders on not one coutry...but the rest of the EU.

Double standards much?
England has no power to leave the EU. The UK, however...


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Midlander
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#6172
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#6172
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Hardly a response that shows a "better together" attitude. Thankfully anyone with any reasonable line of thought doesn't think the way you do.

Why borders with an independent Scotland? Why? Why? I repeat...if its not spite...then whats the rationale here?

Do you want border controls to be set up with republic of Ireland? Right now there isn't any. What reason is there that you should have one with Scotland and not Ireland? Wheres your rationale if its not spite?

I guess it is spite.
So you mention NI only when it suits you? Unbelievable. How do you explain the tuition fees?


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1tartanarmy
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#6173
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#6173
(Original post by flugelr)
Personally I think one of the first things an independent Scotland should do is have an EU referendum. If we are going to intergrate more into the EU then I feel that should be a choice made by the people of Scotland.
Well thats your opinion but I don't feel personally that there is an appetite to leave thr EU in Scotland, certainly not as much as there is in England. BBC done a poll last week that showed this.
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1tartanarmy
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#6174
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#6174
(Original post by Midlander)
England has no power to leave the EU. The UK, however...


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I know that haha, Englands vote (the people voting in England) would decide whether we leave or not. Scotlands vote wouldn't matter unless its an extremely close vote.
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1tartanarmy
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#6175
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#6175
(Original post by Midlander)
So you mention NI only when it suits you? Unbelievable. How do you explain the tuition fees?


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You seem to get your tartan trousers in a twist about England UK etc.

I say England just because its the most populated area we are voting to leave from. I mean no disrespect to the rUK. I'm also not trying to turn it into a Scotland v England debate. Incidentally I think that would backfire on me if I done that!

So I will use rUk from now on when I remember to, I also apologise to Wales and Northern Ireland, I feel your pain.

Happy?

Explain tution fees? I have learnt from science that questions have to be specific to get a useful answer. Can you explain specifically what you are asking me?

If its literal and you want to know what tuition fees are then I suggest you do a bit of research!
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Good bloke
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#6176
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#6176
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Explain tution fees? I have learnt from science that questions have to be specific to get a useful answer. Can you explain specifically what you are asking me?
The obvious question is to ask for an explanation of how the SNP believes it can get away with an independent Scotland, a member of the EU, charging tuition fees to UK students when it won't charge them for Scots and other EU citizens. This would be illegal and will never be allowed to happen.
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CFL2013
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#6177
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#6177
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
I have learnt from science that questions have to be specific to get a useful answer. Can you explain specifically what you are asking me?
OK I'll try once more

Can you explain to me how it is in the rUKs interest to have this 'currency union?' I can see why Scotland want it, for a start they need sterlings 'credit history' to raise capital. For the rUK though, there are no benefits whatsoever. Scotland would be able to go on a mammoth spending spree and have it underwritten by another countries taxpayers, it would be poison politically. You must be able to see that this is not going to be allowed to happen?

There is no anti-Scotland agenda here pal, no matter how much you try and spin it. I would be the same if I was having to pay towards Albanias budget.
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MatureStudent36
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#6178
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#6178
(Original post by Midlander)
Do you mean English or RUK businesses? Salmond and Sturgeon seem unaware of the distinction, as do you.


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Or Wales or Northern Ireland....the Channel Islands, Isle of Man.
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Midlander
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#6179
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#6179
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
I know that haha, Englands vote (the people voting in England) would decide whether we leave or not. Scotlands vote wouldn't matter unless its an extremely close vote.
I thought it wasn't about Scotland v England?


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MatureStudent36
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#6180
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#6180
(Original post by Good bloke)
The obvious question is to ask for an explanation of how the SNP believes it can get away with an independent Scotland, a member of the EU, charging tuition fees to UK students when it won't charge them for Scots and other EU citizens. This would be illegal and will never be allowed to happen.
I'll answer that.

Because we have a devolved government, Holyrood has chosen to have free university tuition. If it offered that to its own people, by law it has to treat all EU Citiziens itself. However, the rest of the UK is a slight anomaly as the legislation doesn't apply to treating other parts of the country as it would a foreign EU national.

The problem comes however in the event if a yes vote. The rest of the UK becomes a foreign state and its Citiziens get treated the same as any other EU country.
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