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Right-wing factions seeking to run debate on TSR? Watch

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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I would be back properly if this site loaded and worked properly.
    With 13,000+ posts (wowza!) I can easily imagine the site could be frustrating. Welcome anyway to my humble (currently most popular on TSR) thread.
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Perhaps a reason for that is that you get your facts from a newspaper, and maybe they see it happen in front of their own eyes?

    Welfare for example, Everyone i know, even my own mum, has avoided declaring income in the past in order to claim benefits.

    Telling me that i generalise those on welfare, and then presenting needless facts that are put out there to most likely lessen the extent of the problem.

    The fact of the matter is, if welfare wasnt inefficient, the government wouldnt cut it, lol.
    I would never say welfare is entirely efficient as it is now, because its not, its obvious it isnt and to say otherwise is outrageous.
    However how the current government are cutting it is increasing the inequality in this once great nation (and yes, i know throwing money at it as Labour did doesn't help either so don't try to throw that in my face). The topping up of wages by the state isn't the best idea, job seekers allowance doesnt quite work as its made to, among other problems, however the idea that just cutting it and raising the income tax threshold will make up for it is idiotic at best.
    And cutting child benefit for the, dare i say it 'normal family' is also detrimental, I know not the most academic of examples, but my mum and many I know work their asses off as single parents, but if it weren't for child benefit we would be in a terrible situation.
    The key problem is getting people working again, but in jobs that pay enough to keep you going, so raising minimum wage would go some way towards that, and getting everyone to pay their fair share would be helpful too (including the dangerous bankers which got us into this mess). And investing in building especially would be great, we can't just cut our way out of our current situation.
    But along with this welfare reform needs to be the reigning in of the banks, and possibly closing the tax loopholes which, is I am correct, if successfully closed would bring the defecit to zero by this time next year?
    I'm no economist, not even into uni yet, but for me, and from what I've read this is my view of how this mess might be sorted out.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Isn't this Farage's basic technique? He struts around mouthing it off - then when debated with properly, as on QT, he just gets louder and louder, repeats the same clueless points in different ways, makes stuff up about the EU (I heard him say at least five completely factually innaccurate things about the EU and about immigration policy last time he was on QT) and then when cornered properly, as by Paxman on Newsnight, throws his toys out of the pram and gets all huffy for being questioned.
    You've jsut described quite a few right wing politicians there, but some are just more adept at throwing their toys in a way which looks like an answer cough*Boris Johnson*cough.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    You're saying a statistical fact, say that less than 1% of benefits claims are fraudulent, is less reliable than an individuals subjective personal experience?

    Bizarre.
    Isn't fraud- of any type- by it's very nature hard to accurately measure or quantify

    Surely it is most likely underestimated as the 'best' fraudsters go undetected

    Especially as there have been cases of workers in the DWP committing benefit fraud!
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    With 13,000+ posts (wowza!) I can easily imagine the site could be frustrating. Welcome anyway to my humble (currently most popular on TSR) thread.
    Not as popular as my welfare spending thread!
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    It is a preserve of the extreme right. What ZippyRN describes is not fascist. He should stick to nursing, his knowledge of politics is woeful.
    So are you saying Stalin and Mao didn't have fascist tendencies?
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    Access to healthcare is a human right..
    No it's not. What you're saying is that you have a God given right to demand healthcare from others. Or to turn the clarity up a notch - you believe in slavery insofar as it serves your healthcare needs because you have a deep emotional attachment to your physical wellbeing.

    Healthcare is important I agree, but we it's not so important that we have to enslave one another to obtain it. That's not a proper economic model.

    I can only hope that you can read enough libertarian material to help you overcome these pathological thought processes.
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    I am an extremist apparently, FFS I am not
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    With 13,000+ posts (wowza!) I can easily imagine the site could be frustrating. Welcome anyway to my humble (currently most popular on TSR) thread.
    You can get a lot of posts if you waste your time on the internet


    (Original post by Jprr)
    You've jsut described quite a few right wing politicians there, but some are just more adept at throwing their toys in a way which looks like an answer cough*Boris Johnson*cough.
    That describes more than just right wingers. Ignorance of facts, throwing ones toys out of ones pram, and general political twittery are characteristics shared by the left and the right.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    You're saying a statistical fact, say that less than 1% of benefits claims are fraudulent, is less reliable than an individuals subjective personal experience?

    Bizarre.
    The whole idea of not declaring income to claim benefits, is what it is...?

    How do you measure fradulent benefit claimants if you havent caught them?

    The actual fact is, the statistics base themselfs off those known to be fraudulent. BUT NOT every fraudulent benefit claimant.

    You're telling me 1 percent of benefit claimants are fraudulent, and i reply with that with the simple statement that, they are the only fraudsters who have been caught..

    Why is it so hard to understand?
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    (Original post by a729)
    Not as popular as my welfare spending thread!
    Not sure what you mean. Right now this thread is top of the pile and your silly thread isn't even on the visible list.
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    (Original post by a729)
    So are you saying Stalin and Mao didn't have fascist tendencies?
    If you want to use the word fascist as a synonym for authoratarian, then yes. However, this then makes the term meaningless as a political descriptor.

    Many political systems are authoratarian, this does not make them fascist.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    No it's not. What you're saying is that you have a God given right to demand healthcare from others. Or to turn the clarity up a notch - you believe in slavery insofar as it serves your healthcare needs because you have a deep emotional attachment to your physical wellbeing.

    Healthcare is important I agree, but we it's not so important that we have to enslave one another to obtain it. That's not a proper economic model.

    I can only hope that you can read enough libertarian material to help you overcome these pathological thought processes.
    Actually, in the legal sense, it is a human right.

    Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be precise.
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    (Original post by AtlasCanTakeIt)
    Actually, in the legal sense, it is a human right.

    Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to be precise.
    its not a natural right. Unless you believe in the 'right' to steal.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    You can get a lot of posts if you waste your time on the internet

    That describes more than just right wingers. Ignorance of facts, throwing ones toys out of ones pram, and general political twittery are characteristics shared by the left and the right.
    There are some particularly egregious offenders - Boris comes to mind, he just blusters and acts as a blowhard, but he can get really nasty and objectionable when cornered. Ed Balls just wonders all over the place and looks ridiculous. Osborne patronises and refuses to answer anything, as does his little pocket doll, Danny Alexander. Clegg pretends to be a nice guy and obfuscates. Farage rants and tries (badly) to laugh off any evidence that he's really just a bigmouthed plonker. Cameron oozes and acts like a corporate PR who sometimes forgets his brief.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    That describes more than just right wingers. Ignorance of facts, throwing ones toys out of ones pram, and general political twittery are characteristics shared by the left and the right.
    Haha you speak the truth unfortunately... Politicians are no longer (if they were ever truly) on top of things, never make a decision until they think the public will support it, and get led by public ignorance, hence all the recent debates over immigration.
    The cycle goes like this: media grabbed ahold of it (with mail etc blowing it out of proportion), people looked at it as a purely negative thing, and lo and behold there was a speech from all three party leaders condemning this poisonous theives from foreign lands (who contribute more to this country than the british by proportion they seem to gloss over) just for them to win a few votes.
    Rather than trying to show people how things really are, as LEADERS should.
    Disgraceful.
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    (Original post by Morgsie)
    I am an extremist apparently, FFS I am not
    Didn't the Lib Dems kick you out of the party because of your unusual views?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Not sure what you mean. Right now this thread is top of the pile and your silly thread isn't even on the visible list.
    Loool well your mistaken-it's definitely there now!

    And It's clearly not silly as public opinion agreed with me!
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    The whole idea of not declaring income to claim benefits, is what it is...?

    How do you measure fradulent benefit claimants if you havent caught them?

    The actual fact is, the statistics base themselfs off those known to be fraudulent. BUT NOT every fraudulent benefit claimant.

    You're telling me 1 percent of benefit claimants are fraudulent, and i reply with that with the simple statement that, they are the only fraudsters who have been caught..

    Why is it so hard to understand?
    Okay.

    The BCS records all recorded instances of crime.

    As you correctly state, not all crime is reported or known about, the 'dark figure' as it's known.

    Nevertheless, policy, public opinion, legislation all have to be based on something.

    The best possible source of information is the collection of available statistics...

    ...not your mother. Or your auntie or your uncle.
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    (Original post by a729)
    Loool well your mistaken-it's definitely there now!

    And It's clearly not silly as public opinion agreed with me!
    ? I don't see that. Does the software give more weight to one's own threads on the Most Popular list or something?

    All of your threads have been deemed to be Silly, at least for the foreseeable future.
 
 
 
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