Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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flugelr
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#6201
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#6201
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
We need independence then from then on in it decisions could be made by Scots. We can't ask questions like that just now as we are bound to the UK. What would be the point in asking people now?
Why can't we ask questions like that now? Only a muppet would believe Alex Salmond and not ask questions.

The Tory plan is to have a EU referendum in 2017. If Scotland votes for independence, we will need to negotiate with the EU either for membership in the first place or for terms of continued membership.

According to the Yes Scotland camp, negotiations will be done by 2016, therefore a 2017 Scottish EU Referendum would seem sensible.
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CFL2013
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#6202
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#6202
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Says who? You speak for Scots then? We will see who "wins" as you put it. Bare in mind this isn't a sporting contest.
Ignoring the economic questions I take it?

Just like the SNP lol

When the actual vote comes you'll bottle it. Look at the bookmakers mate, they aren't mugs.
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1tartanarmy
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#6203
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#6203
(Original post by flugelr)
Why can't we ask questions like that now? Only a muppet would believe Alex Salmond and not ask questions.

The Tory plan is to have a EU referendum in 2017. If Scotland votes for independence, we will need to negotiate with the EU either for membership in the first place or for terms of continued membership.

According to the Yes Scotland camp, negotiations will be done by 2016, therefore a 2017 Scottish EU Referendum would seem sensible.
Waste of money for one. If we did ask there is not going to be an edinburgh agreement esque treaty saying if Scotland wants closer integration then we will get it, not if the UK as a whole doesn't

Maybe A to B to C is better than B to A to C. Why ask questions of Scotland when we dont have independence yet. Common sense?
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1tartanarmy
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#6204
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#6204
(Original post by CFL2013)
Ignoring the economic questions I take it?

Just like the SNP lol

When the actual vote comes you'll bottle it. Look at the bookmakers mate, they aren't mugs.
The bookies odds have been shortening for Yes for months now! Trust me I have been following them.

Bottle it? I'm going to go out and vote and accept the decision either way. Whats the big deal here haha?

What economic question have you asked? Be specific for heavens sake. Want to know what its like? Here goes

Explain defence to me?

Now that question...answer it.... do you like the non specificity of it?
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CFL2013
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#6205
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#6205
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
The bookies odds have been shortening for Yes for months now! Trust me I have been following them.

Bottle it? I'm going to go out and vote and accept the decision either way. Whats the big deal here haha?
Scotland as a whole will bottle it. The issue will be decided on the economics, as it always is. You know, the part the SNP and yourself seem to be refusing reality on.

You still haven't answered my specific question either. Is that because you can't?
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Jordooooom
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#6206
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#6206
(Original post by CFL2013)
Ignoring the economic questions I take it?

Just like the SNP lol

When the actual vote comes you'll bottle it. Look at the bookmakers mate, they aren't mugs.
The bookies also had Scotland 1/100 to enter the currency union and 50/1 not to...
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1tartanarmy
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#6207
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#6207
Todays poll by the daily record had yes at 40% and no at 44%. The trend continues and thats a unionist paper!
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flugelr
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#6208
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#6208
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Waste of money for one. If we did ask there is not going to be an edinburgh agreement esque treaty saying if Scotland wants closer integration then we will get it, not if the UK as a whole doesn't
By 2016 The Scottish Government will (or so we've been told) have negotiated what our relationship with the EU would be.

That means in 2017 it would be very easy for the Scotttish Government to put the question to the people of Scotland, "Do you agree to staying in the EU under these terms or do you want out?"

(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
Maybe A to B to C is better than B to A to C. Why ask questions of Scotland when we dont have independence yet. Common sense?
Why ask questions? For the same reason I'd ask questions when buying a house; I want to know what I'm getting.

For example, I want to know what currency we would be using. The SNP still haven't been able to give a proper answer yet.
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1tartanarmy
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#6209
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#6209
(Original post by CFL2013)
Scotland as a whole will bottle it. The issue will be decided on the economics, as it always is. You know, the part the SNP and yourself seem to be refusing reality on.

You still haven't answered my specific question either. Is that because you can't?
What specific question ya muppet. I'm stating here publically to ask me the question. Ask me....I can't because you won't ask me!
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MatureStudent36
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#6210
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#6210
(Original post by CFL2013)
A government would never hold a referendum it wasn't going to win.

Just like this one
Well they're doing a p**s poor job at attempting to win it.
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1tartanarmy
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#6211
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#6211
(Original post by CFL2013)
OK I'll try once more

Can you explain to me how it is in the rUKs interest to have this 'currency union?' I can see why Scotland want it, for a start they need sterlings 'credit history' to raise capital. For the rUK though, there are no benefits whatsoever. Scotland would be able to go on a mammoth spending spree and have it underwritten by another countries taxpayers, it would be poison politically. You must be able to see that this is not going to be allowed to happen?

There is no anti-Scotland agenda here pal, no matter how much you try and spin it. I would be the same if I was having to pay towards Albanias budget.
This one?

Well your last point it void. I have never said there was an anti-scottish agenda! I don't think there is one either! Spin on that.

Well Scotland is the rUk second biggest export market. Transaction costs would cost buisnesses a fortune! Also the balance of payments is undoubtedly supported by scotland oil. Furthermore 71% of rUK want us to have a currency union for those reasons!
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1tartanarmy
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#6212
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#6212
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Well they're doing a p**s poor job at attempting to win it.
40% yes 44% no. Is that poor? Funny how the yes vote was 31 % a few months ago and no was in the high 50s.
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CFL2013
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#6213
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#6213
(Original post by Jordooooom)
The bookies also had Scotland 1/100 to enter the currency union and 50/1 not to...
No they didn't. Those were odds on still using the GBP which, if you actually understood economics and politics, are very different things.

Those odds would have included using the Pound as a traded currency, which absolutely would be Scotlands right to do. That is not the same thing as a currency union. I think you should perhaps go and read about what a central bank does. You would not be independent since you would have no control over your monetary system.
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MatureStudent36
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#6214
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#6214
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
40% yes 44% no. Is that poor? Funny how the yes vote was 31 % a few months ago and no was in the high 50s.
Where's 40% said yes?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott...ferendum,_2014

It would appear that Joan MacAlpine has been doing her usual cherry picking of information.

The polling results are linked above.

Which recent poll for 2014 shows 40% support?

The only time its hit anything beginning with a 4 was the spurious panelbase poll in August last year that even the SNP disowned itself from as it was biased not even they could defend it.
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Jordooooom
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#6215
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#6215
(Original post by CFL2013)
No they didn't. Those were odds on still using the GBP which, if you actually understood economics and politics, are very different things.

Those odds would have included using the Pound as a traded currency, which absolutely would be Scotlands right to do. That is not the same thing as a currency union. I think you should perhaps go and read about what a central bank does. You would not be independent since you would have no control over your monetary system.
I never knew that, from what I read it just said currency union. So no need to go on a rant about knowing economics and politics as if the difference between a currency union and simply pegging the £ is so hard to grasp :rolleyes:

You seem to be under the assumption that the bookies odds can't change within 7 months time. As the yes vote is gaining momentum. Then again, you haven't a clue what you're talking about do you?
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CFL2013
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#6216
(Original post by 1tartanarmy)
This one?

Well your last point it void. I have never said there was an anti-scottish agenda! I don't think there is one either! Spin on that.

Well Scotland is the rUk second biggest export market. Transaction costs would cost buisnesses a fortune! Also the balance of payments is undoubtedly supported by scotland oil. Furthermore 71% of rUK want us to have a currency union for those reasons!
Give me strength. Transaction costs are negligible. The oil revenues, whilst significant, are a fraction of the rUKs GDP. There is NO WAY a central bank will underwrite a currency when it doesn't have control over the monetary system. How can it control it? This is economics 101, and if you can't understand that then it's perhaps best to just stop shouting out Yes Campaign soundbites you don't really understand. The risks to the rUK would be enormous, for what benefit? Saving a few quid on transaction fees?

I have not agenda on this, in fact I'd be interested to see how an independent Scotland would work. It's for you guys to decide, and good luck on whatever you do. But decide on the facts, not the Yes Campaign propaganda.
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Cryptographic
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#6217
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#6217
(Original post by flugelr)
Our central bank would be in a foreign country. Will the EU beak its own rule to let us in?
That is of course assuming that all 3 major parties, the civil service, and most economic pundits are bluffing.
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CFL2013
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#6218
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#6218
(Original post by Jordooooom)
I never knew that, from what I read it just said currency union. So no need to go on a rant about knowing economics and politics as if the difference between a currency union and simply pegging the £ is so hard to grasp :rolleyes:

You seem to be under the assumption that the bookies odds can't change within 7 months time. As the yes vote is gaining momentum. Then again, you haven't a clue what you're talking about do you?
Sorry, it wasn't meant to come across as a rant, it's good you're interested. I can only go on what you posted and it read like that. However, you should realise that odds on 1/100 basically mean it is going to happen, and it's never been that situation on a currency union. That should ring alarm bells.

However, I don't think you understand how bookies work either. They change their odds to tempt the markets, it's not all pure probability. The key is they have always been for the same overall result, i.e. a No vote. If they went towards Yes there would be an avalanche of money onto it (because it's incredibly unlikely) and they would lose a fortune. Bookies don't generally lose fortunes.
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flugelr
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#6219
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#6219
(Original post by EsomR)
That is of course assuming that all 3 major parties, the civil service, and most economic pundits are bluffing.
Alex Salmond told me that was only bullying. He should know, given his record of bullying the residents in his own constituency so that his buddy Donald Trump could smash up nature reserves.
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Jordooooom
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#6220
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#6220
(Original post by CFL2013)
Sorry, it wasn't meant to come across as a rant, it's good you're interested. I can only go on what you posted and it read like that. However, you should realise that odds on 1/100 basically mean it is going to happen, and it's never been that situation on a currency union. That should ring alarm bells.

However, I don't think you understand how bookies work either. They change their odds to tempt the markets, it's not all pure probability. The key is they have always been for the same overall result, i.e. a No vote. If they went towards Yes there would be an avalanche of money onto it (because it's incredibly unlikely) and they would lose a fortune. Bookies don't generally lose fortunes.
Fair enough, guess I should have looked into it more! A lot of the better together campaign are complaining about there being no plan B. I thought it was obvious that they plan to use the pound either way, for a while anyway...despite not wanting to explicitly say that.
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