Turn on thread page Beta
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mr tim)
    Henderson out for the rest of the season with a knee ligament damage. No surgery required.
    That's a shame and it probably doesn't help his chances to improve any opinion Klopp might hold of him. Milner in midfield or Allen? Lucas back soon but I can't see Klopp opting for a Can/Lucas pairing..

    Maybe Allen can improve his value by a few million with half a dozen good performances to the end of the season..

    (Original post by ClockEnderAFC)
    England's hopes at the euros have just been rekindled.
    Lol because Wilshere might play instead? :rofl:

    The ultimate problem for this summer is Roy Hodgson who will in turn pick a terrible team based around Rooney.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Allen can take his place, he can actually provide some control in midfield. Think Henderson has only been getting into the first XI with his captaincy imo. He hasn't been good enough this season, not really his fault due to injuries but Allen has been more consistent than him.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    That's a shame and it probably doesn't help his chances to improve any opinion Klopp might hold of him. Milner in midfield or Allen? Lucas back soon but I can't see Klopp opting for a Can/Lucas pairing..

    Maybe Allen can improve his value by a few million with half a dozen good performances to the end of the season..



    Lol because Wilshere might play instead? :rofl:

    The ultimate problem for this summer is Roy Hodgson who will in turn pick a terrible team based around Rooney.
    Wilshere with one leg > Henderson
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ClockEnderAFC)
    Wilshere with one leg > Henderson
    Guess you've been smoking what Wilshere has.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    Pls

    That's my point, our defence is far more solid than yours (2nd best in the league vs 11th) so there's no basis to that prediction, just salt.

    Add in our great (W3D2L1) record vs the top 4 and we'd have probably won, given how poor Dortmund were.
    Yeah I'm salty that we knocked you out and matched the tournament favourites away from home...

    Your defence isn't solid. You have DDG who is world class and Smalling who is excellent bar a few random errors (similar to Sakho really).

    There's no chance you would've done what we did last night, not solely because of your defence, but because you don't have anywhere near the work rate from midfield.

    Scenes when you make top 4 but don't get CL because we win EL
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Guess you've been smoking what Wilshere has.
    **** don't get you high bro.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Yeah I'm salty that we knocked you out and matched the tournament favourites away from home...

    Your defence isn't solid. You have DDG who is world class and Smalling who is excellent bar a few random errors (similar to Sakho really).

    There's no chance you would've done what we did last night, not solely because of your defence, but because you don't have anywhere near the work rate from midfield.

    Scenes when you make top 4 but don't get CL because we win EL
    Clearly salty about something when you're going on about United despite going through

    Stats don't lie brah, it's not even close

    Given how good we are against top opposition and how unimpressive they were, there's every chance
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by difeo)
    Clearly salty about something when you're going on about United despite going through

    Stats don't lie brah, it's not even close

    Given how good we are against top opposition and how unimpressive they were, there's every chance
    Strong arguments bro

    Like I said, midfield was the main factor.
    Our defence were excellent but it was Can/Milner/Henderson/Lallana snuffing out most of the chances before they were made.
    You might get a bit of that from Schneiderlin and Carrick but no way is Memphis/Mata gonna contribute and Fellaini will just give free kicks away.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Yeah I'm salty that we knocked you out and matched the tournament favourites away from home...

    Your defence isn't solid. You have DDG who is world class and Smalling who is excellent bar a few random errors (similar to Sakho really).

    There's no chance you would've done what we did last night, not solely because of your defence, but because you don't have anywhere near the work rate from midfield.

    Scenes when you make top 4 but don't get CL because we win EL
    They changed that rule so that you get an extra entry into the CL.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    They changed that rule so that you get an extra entry into the CL.
    Awww fair enough, my bad.

    Would be great to win the EL since we have nothing else going for us but it's still a massive ask. We may have a "slight" upper hand against Dortmund but we only have 1 away goal so if the match becomes high scoring, we're in trouble.

    All we have to do is keep a clean sheet. Easy
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Awww fair enough, my bad.

    Would be great to win the EL since we have nothing else going for us but it's still a massive ask. We may have a "slight" upper hand against Dortmund but we only have 1 away goal so if the match becomes high scoring, we're in trouble.

    All we have to do is keep a clean sheet. Easy
    Was a funny one.. when we won the CL in 2005 the rules didn't contemplate a winner not qualifying via their domestic league so they gave us an extra position. Then they changed it so that your lowest qualifier loses their spot for a winner (Chelsea did it to Spurs) but when they created the EL winner getting a CL spot, it's an extra spot.

    Although I think if Man City were to finish 5th and win the CL, they would get the extra CL qualification spot over us if we were to win the EL..
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Was a funny one.. when we won the CL in 2005 the rules didn't contemplate a winner not qualifying via their domestic league so they gave us an extra position. Then they changed it so that your lowest qualifier loses their spot for a winner (Chelsea did it to Spurs) but when they created the EL winner getting a CL spot, it's an extra spot.

    Although I think if Man City were to finish 5th and win the CL, they would get the extra CL qualification spot over us if we were to win the EL..
    Pretty sure it's whoever finishes 4th that loses the CL place if both the EL and CL winners finishes outside the top 4 in the PL.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Was a funny one.. when we won the CL in 2005 the rules didn't contemplate a winner not qualifying via their domestic league so they gave us an extra position. Then they changed it so that your lowest qualifier loses their spot for a winner (Chelsea did it to Spurs) but when they created the EL winner getting a CL spot, it's an extra spot.

    Although I think if Man City were to finish 5th and win the CL, they would get the extra CL qualification spot over us if we were to win the EL..
    Na what happens there is that whoever comes 4th loses their spot.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    I think Mkhi had a lot of joy because Dortmund played a very 4-2-3-1 with Mkhi going into that central role behind the striker which meant he could go back to the midfield or go forward to attack whereas our midfield were more in a horizontal line across the middle. Usually in Europe teams have tended to drop a DM in that gap to counter the attacking midfielder. Think it was a lot to do with being a spare man in that area than just being a huge gap?
    I've rewatched the two main situations of threat; Mkhi's shot after the Piszczek pass out of the defence, and Aubameyang's shot after the other Mkhi run. There are a couple of things to note.

    There was actually a pretty huge gap. Most teams pressing up the pitch will be a lot closer to the halfway line than Lovren and Sakho were. Obviously this is to counter the pace Aubameyang and Reus (who was also stationed on the last man). There was a solid 30+ yards between our high pressing midfield and the defence. Dortmund should have taken advantage of this more often. On the Aubameyang shot, the second chance they had, the gap was increased by Can being a tiny bit lazy to get back into a central position (and maybe this manufactured the chance), and Henderson drifting forwards to join the attack instead of being aware of what was behind him. For the first chance (moment of the pass out from RB in the pic), Can was high pressing as had been asked of him, but Milner was slow to get back into position following a run into the box, giving Mkhi too much space. Henderson is in his position probably due to instruction, but at very least he could have been aware of the space behind him (would likely not have helped much in this instance but startling how high and wide he is when the other fullback is on the ball). The error is Milner's though. He even turned around and had a look at Mkhitaryan's position but was lazy to get back there, even knowing that Moreno was occupied by Durm (?).

    You're right in that teams in Europe usually do drop a man in between midfield and defence, in our cases Can was too busy pressing, and just removed from the ball so not really his fault. If we'd a) not lost the ball suddenly like Coutinho did in the second chance, and b) Milner had kept up his usual work rate, it would have been flawless. The pressing was excellent on the whole. Klopp has largely tended to press the ball in clusters (as opposed to Pep shutting down passing lanes) but we did a bit of both in that first half.
    Attached Images
     
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lúcio)
    Awww fair enough, my bad.

    Would be great to win the EL since we have nothing else going for us but it's still a massive ask. We may have a "slight" upper hand against Dortmund but we only have 1 away goal so if the match becomes high scoring, we're in trouble.

    All we have to do is keep a clean sheet. Easy
    We don't have an upper hand. We have a better chance than we did before but they're still marginal favourites.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samir12)
    Pretty sure it's whoever finishes 4th that loses the CL place if both the EL and CL winners finishes outside the top 4 in the PL.
    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Na what happens there is that whoever comes 4th loses their spot.
    http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague...d=2215121.html

    This season was the first where the winners of the previous UEFA Europa League gained automatic entry into the UEFA Champions League: Sevilla taking that berth despite finishing fifth in Spain, a position they currently hold again now as they attempt to get past Basel in Europe. That meant Spain had a record five teams in the UEFA Champions League group stage this time around.

    No more than five clubs can enter the UEFA Champions League from one national association (this was an increase on the previous maximum of four).

    So looks like 4th place in the league would only lose their CL spot if both the CL and EL winners were English clubs and both finished outside the top 4.

    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    I've rewatched the two main situations of threat; Mkhi's shot after the Piszczek pass out of the defence, and Aubameyang's shot after the other Mkhi run. There are a couple of things to note.

    There was actually a pretty huge gap. Most teams pressing up the pitch will be a lot closer to the halfway line than Lovren and Sakho were. Obviously this is to counter the pace Aubameyang and Reus (who was also stationed on the last man). There was a solid 30+ yards between our high pressing midfield and the defence. Dortmund should have taken advantage of this more often. On the Aubameyang shot, the second chance they had, the gap was increased by Can being a tiny bit lazy to get back into a central position (and maybe this manufactured the chance), and Henderson drifting forwards to join the attack instead of being aware of what was behind him. For the first chance (moment of the pass out from RB in the pic), Can was high pressing as had been asked of him, but Milner was slow to get back into position following a run into the box, giving Mkhi too much space. Henderson is in his position probably due to instruction, but at very least he could have been aware of the space behind him (would likely not have helped much in this instance but startling how high and wide he is when the other fullback is on the ball). The error is Milner's though. He even turned around and had a look at Mkhitaryan's position but was lazy to get back there, even knowing that Moreno was occupied by Durm (?).

    You're right in that teams in Europe usually do drop a man in between midfield and defence, in our cases Can was too busy pressing, and just removed from the ball so not really his fault. If we'd a) not lost the ball suddenly like Coutinho did in the second chance, and b) Milner had kept up his usual work rate, it would have been flawless. The pressing was excellent on the whole. Klopp has largely tended to press the ball in clusters (as opposed to Pep shutting down passing lanes) but we did a bit of both in that first half.
    Interest points. I'm not convinced our midfield knew 100% what they wanted to be doing at each point. Being unsure if they should be supporting the front 3 or helping protect the backline. On the whole we did well but we were wayward with our passing at times which meant it was easier for Dortmund to spring against us with such large gaps too.

    Milner does seem that yard slow for these types of fast pace games when chasing the ball. However he does shut down passing lanes so well. He had the highest number of interceptions and tackles won on Thursday - way higher than everyone else - which was interesting.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Parties in LA)
    We don't have an upper hand. We have a better chance than we did before but they're still marginal favourites.
    Our players looked a bit tentative for the first 20 minutes. After that I think they had a lightbulb moment when they realised "hang on a second, these guys aren't that much better than us" and then we continued to grow into the game.

    I think we'll be a lot better at Anfield in terms of not feeling so obliged to give them so much respect. Klopp will be telling the players they can win the tie.

    Who will play in the midfield tomorrow? Henderson injured and Can banned for 2 league games.. Allen and..?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Who will play in the midfield tomorrow? Henderson injured and Can banned for 2 league games.. Allen and..?
    Probably either Brannagan or Stewart.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Lucas is also a shout tommorow.
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Probably either Brannagan or Stewart.
    Is Stewart back from injury?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
 
 
 
Poll
How are you feeling in the run-up to Results Day 2018?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.