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    I'm not so much against a Jewish homeland, but what angers me is the Jews impose nothing but a double standard. Most people I see defend Israel apart from Jews themselves are White people! but why? Do White European people not understand that you are being robbed of your homeland? Whites will be a minority in Britain, France, Germany, Sweden and many others soon enough. Multiculturalism has JEWISH origins. Jews are using multiculturalism as a tactic of genocide against White people.You can't call Jews a race, but what the heck is the difference between race and people? Jews aren't genetically related to European people and have hardly intermixed in their long history here it's a fact. Jews are as much a race as there is a Black race a White race. Jews identify themselves as Jews, regardless of religion.
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    The Palestinians will never have their freedom through the UN. Israel and the USA are a part of the same body. Given how far the west went to create the illegal state of Israel I'm afraid no amount of pressure from the UN will further Palestines cause. It will have to be a military solution unfortunately. Israel for one will not step down.

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    (Original post by R£SP£CT)
    The Palestinians will never have their freedom through the UN. Israel and the USA are a part of the same body. Given how far the west went to create the illegal state of Israel I'm afraid no amount of pressure from the UN will further Palestines cause. It will have to be a military solution unfortunately. Israel for one will not step down.

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    "Solution"? Why is the Palestinians, in the current state of being run by Hamas, having statehood a good thing?
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    (Original post by Skip_Snip)
    "Solution"? Why is the Palestinians, in the current state of being run by Hamas, having statehood a good thing?
    To understand this you need to go back in History. Why did the west push for an Israeli state? What is it about that Land that makes it "special"? There are ugly truths in the form of lies, deception, racism and bribery etc.

    From day one Israel have been expanding. And they will continue to do so until they are content. Therein lies the danger. Having deposed of lots of Palestinians in addition to vast illegal settlements, Israel won't stop until her goal is reached. The Palestinians are fighting for a lost cause if they believe they can attain statehood through the UN.

    Statehood recognises the legitimacy of a land with people within it. Strategically and diplomatically it is important as it gives Palestine some legs to stand on. It is not unexpected that Palestinians will utilise this avenue. I believe they will continue to do so for the forseeable future. The Hamas excuse is a redundant one. Israeli policy towards Palestinians is something that helped create this mess. Hamas are a by product of Western aggression(I use this term deliberately as it was Western aggression that created Israel in the first place and to this day Israeli aggression). The Palestinians being a dire state will clutch on to anything they can for hope of a future state. Hence some believe they will achieve this through Hamas and some via the UN.
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    (Original post by R£SP£CT)
    The Palestinians will never have their freedom through the UN. Israel and the USA are a part of the same body. Given how far the west went to create the illegal state of Israel I'm afraid no amount of pressure from the UN will further Palestines cause. It will have to be a military solution unfortunately. Israel for one will not step down.

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    I know I'm probably going to regret asking this but how is Israel and illegal state?
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    Israeli settlement activity in Area C is a part of the Oslo Accords (agreed and signed by Yasser Arafat)

    Unilateral moves to change the status of the territories (like Abbas going to the UN) are not.
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    (Original post by R£SP£CT)
    The Palestinians will never have their freedom through the UN. Israel and the USA are a part of the same body. Given how far the west went to create the illegal state of Israel I'm afraid no amount of pressure from the UN will further Palestines cause. It will have to be a military solution unfortunately. Israel for one will not step down.
    If the West were backing Israel to effect a military solution then they would have established permanent borders on the Jordan and the Suez Canal and would have deported all the Arabs into Jordan and Egypt. Being a nuclear-armed state, the issue would be settled at that point with no guerilla war possible and no effective military operation against Israel possible either. Israel has been gradually conceding territory only under US and European pressure. So, it is probably true that they will never force Israel to concede all of its territory to the Arabs, but would that be a reasonable settlement? Who actually wants to see a second holocaust for the purposes of establishing yet another failed Islamic state on top of a pretty decent multiethnic liberal democracy?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Have the Palestinians ever tried te peaceful route?

    They've been conducting indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israel since 2001. They shifted to rocket attacks because the ten plus years of suicide attacks against Israeli civilians hadn't worked.

    So that the last thirty to forty year of Palestinian violence accounted for.

    One if the main problems is that the Palestinian leadership need a back drop of violence to gain support. Without the back drop of violence theres to much risk of Palestinians asking why their politicians are useless
    So now 13 or 14 + 10 = somewhere between 30 and 40? You might want to go back to school, mate. The argument is also as flawed as ever, it's paramount to saying that if Northern Ireland attacked ROI the UK government has never tried peace with ROI

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So now 13 or 14 + 10 = somewhere between 30 and 40? You might want to go back to school, mate. The argument is also as flawed as ever, it's paramount to saying that if Northern Ireland attacked ROI the UK government has never tried peace with ROI

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    I'm sorry. Are you trying to imply that the Palestinians have been peaceful until only recently.

    Prior to the rocket attacks, we had the suicide bombings that started in 89.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...uicide_attacks

    But it goes way, way further back than that.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timel...inian_conflict

    Indiscriminate rocket attack or suicide attack against civilian targets?
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    (Original post by shahbaz)
    What a big surprise, the US protects Israel once again in the Security Council. The US says no to unilateral moves, but wait a second, what about when Israel makes unilateral moves, like annexing large swaths of Palestinian land, or building an Apartheid barrier
    I'm a little unclear how you can regard Palestine as an independent state on the one hand, and the fence as an "Apartheid barrier" on the other. Apartheid means treating one set of citizens worse than others. If Palestine is not part of Israel, then Palestinians are foreigners, not Israeli citizens, and building a wall along their border and excluding them from Israel is not a restriction of their rights as citizens of a different country. On the other hand if you think the Palestinians should have Israeli citizenship with all the rights that come with it, then your position is that there should be one state solution called Israel and the Palestinian Authority/ies should be abolished.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    I'm a little unclear how you can regard Palestine as an independent state on the one hand, and the fence as an "Apartheid barrier" on the other. Apartheid means treating one set of citizens worse than others. If Palestine is not part of Israel, then Palestinians are foreigners, not Israeli citizens, and building a wall along their border and excluding them from Israel is not a restriction of their rights as citizens of a different country. On the other hand if you think the Palestinians should have Israeli citizenship with all the rights that come with it, then your position is that there should be one state solution called Israel and the Palestinian Authority/ies should be abolished.
    The Palestinian Authority is a joke. An "authority" that can be dismantled by Israel any day and relies almost entirely on foreign handouts, ironically mostly by Israel and the U.S.
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    Don't forget Australia but that's easy to suss. Tony Abbott's very pro-Israel and received large financing from Jews plus huge media support from the likes of Rupert Murdoch.There is an establishment in the Western politics but nobody understands Jewish hegemony influence everything from foreign policy to immigration.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'm sorry. Are you trying to imply that the Palestinians have been peaceful until only recently.

    Prior to the rocket attacks, we had the suicide bombings that started in 89.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...uicide_attacks

    But it goes way, way further back than that.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timel...inian_conflict

    Indiscriminate rocket attack or suicide attack against civilian targets?
    I was merely pointing out that you gave in the region of 24 years and declared it 30-40, quite a difference. It's also easy to criticise them when not in their position, I really wonder how many of those that hate on the whole of Palestine for the actions of the few would actually behave and feel if they were in that position, if the positions of Israel and Palestine were reversed, so Palestine were the larger power occupying Israel, would the Americans still stand up for Israel? Would the Israelis take is lying down or would they resort to terrorism because they have no other platform? If in the current situation, if a minor Israeli faction attacked Palestine, would the Israeli government be blamed? Would that lead to vindication for Israel? Of course it wouldn't.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I was merely pointing out that you gave in the region of 24 years and declared it 30-40, quite a difference. It's also easy to criticise them when not in their position, I really wonder how many of those that hate on the whole of Palestine for the actions of the few would actually behave and feel if they were in that position, if the positions of Israel and Palestine were reversed, so Palestine were the larger power occupying Israel, would the Americans still stand up for Israel? Would the Israelis take is lying down or would they resort to terrorism because they have no other platform? If in the current situation, if a minor Israeli faction attacked Palestine, would the Israeli government be blamed? Would that lead to vindication for Israel? Of course it wouldn't.
    The Palestinians have been conducting attacks against Israel for decades.

    Th current situation is no different to the past. Palestinians do something, Israelis respond. Palestinians forget they initiat d the israeli response and feel obliged to respond in kind.

    I felt it was quite telling that it was the palestinians that always seemed to be the first to for after a truce.

    I don't hate Palestinians. I hate the useful idiots in the west that feel obliged to back them for the sole reason because Israel is an ally of the U.S. not a me concept, shouty left wing morons exposing pro palestinian bollox were prevalent in the 70s and 80s. And then the Soviet Union collapsed and their mythical land of fantasy collapsed.

    If a the roles were reversed and a minor israeli faction attacked Palestine, then if the israeli authorities couldn't control their own people and borders, then yes, I'd be holding the Israeli government responsible just as I hold the Palestinian government and its people for allowing the current spate of attacks on Israel.
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    Israel is a european colony. Quite simple really. A country that has nuclear weapons and is hated by every single country around it. A country that has been in war every single day of its existence since 1948. A country that has Jewish expansionist policies, leading to the occupation of Palestinian land, which the UN views as occupied, but ofcourse speaking out against this is "Anti-Semitic". Along with a bit of systematic persecution and the creation of a giant wall around the Palestinians, people ask why have these Palestinian savages elected Hamas? Just think about it a bit, the opressor is superior to the opressed and the only way they see justice is to fight back. Either way, Israel is a terror state and before anyone talks about Palestine becoming another "muslim country" Israel is a Jewish state and if you go to occupied territories you see bloody ginger blue eyed jews arguing they have a connection to the land as "God gave it to them".
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Israel is a european colony. Quite simple really. A country that has nuclear weapons and is hated by every single country around it. A country that has been in war every single day of its existence since 1948. A country that has Jewish expansionist policies, leading to the occupation of Palestinian land, which the UN views as occupied, but ofcourse speaking out against this is "Anti-Semitic". Along with a bit of systematic persecution and the creation of a giant wall around the Palestinians, people ask why have these Palestinian savages elected Hamas? Just think about it a bit, the opressor is superior to the opressed and the only way they see justice is to fight back. Either way, Israel is a terror state and before anyone talks about Palestine becoming another "muslim country" Israel is a Jewish state and if you go to occupied territories you see bloody ginger blue eyed jews arguing they have a connection to the land as "God gave it to them".
    And yet Israel still kicks the arae of its neighbours when they try to take military action against it.

    Fortunately Egypt and Jordan won't be doing anything silly again.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    And yet Israel still kicks the arae of its neighbours when they try to take military action against it.

    Fortunately Egypt and Jordan won't be doing anything silly again.
    Yep, arabs are very un united and disorganised. Israel is stronger than these stupid arab puppets of the US. But does Israel's power make it a legitimate state, NOPE.
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    (Original post by TheTruthTeller)
    Yep, arabs are very un united and disorganised. Israel is stronger than these stupid arab puppets of the US. But does Israel's power make it a legitimate state, NOPE.
    I don't see the Israel state going anywhere now , or at any time in the future.
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    The Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation; the Israelis have an obligation to withdraw from the Occupied Territories.



    Incorrect. Who used violence in response to a free and fair democratic election in 2006 and 2007? Israel. Who broke the ceasefire which Hamas were abiding by before the Gaza Massacre of 2008? Israel - on numerous occasions in fact - they fired on unarmed Palestinian civilians, went after Palestinian fishing boats and then killed Hamas officials, leading Hamas to respond.

    At the end of the 2012 Israeli attacks on Gaza, another ceasefire was negotiated. Hamas, once again, did not break the ceasefire, while Israel broke it on numerous occasions. Israel then, in June 2014, presided over the mass arrest of hundreds of Hamas political officials in the West Bank, and conducted an air strike which killed Hamas members in Gaza, prompting Hamas to respond in self-defence. And, the rest, as they say, is history: children killed on beaches; numerous UN schools shelled; civilian infrastructure deliberately and intentionally targeted.



    Do you have any evidence for these assertions? I could just as easily assert that the only reason you support Israel is because of your "hatred" for some left-wingers - your knee-jerk response is to side with the government's interpretation. Luckily, Israel's useful idiots are diminishing.



    That minor faction already exists. It's called the IDF, and it has the full support of the Israeli government which has implemented an apartheid system in the Occupied Territories and now wishes to fully style itself as a Jewish state, meaning that Arab rights even in the unoccupied territories may be severely curtailed (they already have restrictions regarding the land they can buy).
    The IDF isnt a minor faction. It is a branch of the democratically elected israeli government.
    Still, doesn't Impact me in the slightest.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I don't see the Israel state going anywhere now , or at any time in the future.
    Well think what you want, but one day when the stupid arabs of the region actually unite, it's pretty much game over. Literally one missile, bomb or whatever hits tel aviv and it's all over. I mean Israel is tiny and it's quite hillarious how the arabs failed to beat them ... lool now that i think about it
 
 
 
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