Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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MostUncivilised
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#6361
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2...-boost-for-no/

First poll since Osborne's currency intervention - there hasn't been the increase in the predicted No vote he was hoping for (though it's too early to say whether the Yes vote may have actually benefited from it).
One poll, that indicates that if the referendum were held tomorrow, the no camp would romp home.

The SNP have jumped the shark. They have no credibility on the currency issue, they have no credibility on Europe, and if they have their way, every Scottish person's pension will plummet in value when it's redenominated in the worthless new Scottish poond.
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Midlander
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(Original post by krishkmistry)
Of course I know - in my opinion though voting yes will mean the 'new Britain' have a test if they can stand on their own two feet without relying on others for success.This country is ridiculous.It gets involved in politician stories it doesn't need to get involved it.The row about immigration has occurred for a possible viable reason that British scroungers can't get off their own backsides and find a job yet they're complaining that other ethnic groups can.economy is a mess.scotland should leave this tip of this country.


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Scottish voters are as concerned about immigration as the rest of us.


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Midlander
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(Original post by krishkmistry)
Watching these Olympics on BBC and realising that they're begging Scotland to vote no for independence just so they don't have to train up their own curling team for 2018.i so hope Scotland vote yes.england are so lazy.



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But it isn't about England v Scotland, all the Yes voters told me so.


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MatureStudent36
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#6364
(Original post by Midlander)
The South East is full of pen pushers, not manufacturers.


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I've thought of that with the high end formula 1 manufacturing based just outside London.
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Blue Meltwater
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
One poll, that indicates that if the referendum were held tomorrow, the no camp would romp home.
It predicts a 45-55% split once the Don't Knows are taken out, which is remarkably close. The No Camp is still safely ahead, I agree, but George Osborne's speech certainly doesn't seem to have had the desire effect.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
George Osborne's speech certainly doesn't seem to have had the desire effect.
It's worthwhile not jumping the gun. One swallow does not a summer make. One poll means nothing, it could be an aberration. The SNP jumping on it stinks of desperation
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uktotalgamer
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#6367
So thus far they have no currency, no membership to the EU and no respectable leadership... I would say it's great for us and terrible for them.
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L i b
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(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
It predicts a 45-55% split once the Don't Knows are taken out, which is remarkably close. The No Camp is still safely ahead, I agree, but George Osborne's speech certainly doesn't seem to have had the desire effect.
I don't think it was ever going to result in a significant swing, and I don't think that was the intent. For the undecideds, I think it will firm up views on both sides somewhat - those who buy one side's narrative more than the other will accept their version of it.

The actual argument isn't going to win people over - but it plants seeds of doubt in the minds of the public about the SNP's competence and trustworthiness. It's part of a broader scheme that is designed to show Alex Salmond standing alone, head above the parapet and - regardless of his comebacks - looking isolated and increasingly desperate.

It's a longer play - and obviously that makes it harder to judge if it's working - but I can't think of a single short-term thing that has made the slightest real difference to the polls. Trust will probably be what wins the day.

(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
Both of their opinions are irrelevant as neither of them live in the UK, let alone Scotland!
I don't think anyone's opinion is irrelevant. It can be stupid, or boring, or any combination of things, but I don't think it's irrelevant.

Quite interesting how Bowie did that last night though. It couldn't have been done better if he had a team of political strategists behind him.
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Midlander
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I've thought of that with the high end formula 1 manufacturing based just outside London.
Or George Osborne himself describing Coventry as a manufacturing centre. London has several fortes but manufacturing isn't one of them.


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Studentus-anonymous
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#6370
(Original post by Midlander)
Scottish voters are as concerned about immigration as the rest of us.


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Exactly, just how many more English expats moving to the glens and islands can Scotland absorb?

(I'm being cheeky lol.)

Edit: One poll aside, the SNP's Yes campaign has consistently failed to make a valid case on any point in the debate. Polls are just snapshots of errant thoughts wafting in the wind on any particular day.

With the Yes campaigns failure to make a real case, and the fact that taking full stock of all other streams of media and opinion show little strong support for an independent Scotland, it's safe to assume that No is the answer Salmond will get.

And the thing is I think he knows it. Whether he is consciously admitting it to himself or he is using the referendum to get some other sub-independence concessions is anyones guess.

If he is he's gambling though and he is risking going all in and getting nothing from Westminster but the death of the SNP as a viable party.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
Exactly, just how many more English expats moving to the glens and islands can Scotland absorb?

(I'm being cheeky lol.)

Edit: One poll aside, the SNP's Yes campaign has consistently failed to make a valid case on any point in the debate. Polls are just snapshots of errant thoughts wafting in the wind on any particular day.

With the Yes campaigns failure to make a real case, and the fact that taking full stock of all other streams of media and opinion show little strong support for an independent Scotland, it's safe to assume that No is the answer Salmond will get.

And the thing is I think he knows it. Whether he is consciously admitting it to himself or he is using the referendum to get some other sub-independence concessions is anyones guess.

If he is he's gambling though and he is risking going all in and getting nothing from Westminster but the death of the SNP as a viable party.
People are firmly entrenched in their views.

My concern is the damage that this bile will create.
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Studentus-anonymous
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
People are firmly entrenched in their views.

My concern is the damage that this bile will create.
I wouldn't be so pessimistic. Yeah there's a hardcore fringe on the Yes side against independence, but the fact that the debate is firmly about the practical concerns and the SNP are having (and have had no) no tangible gains via emotional appeals about romantic nationalism outside of the few who buy into that stuff anyway shows how truly fragile and dire their position genuinely is.

The SNP have done well so far because surprisingly enough they played down the pro-independence dogma on which the party was founded, and were seen in the new Scottish parliamentary environment by the public as a party more concerned with local Scottish political affairs. This however was never a rousing endorsement of the concept of independence and breaking from union.

The SNP have consistently struggled to square away their minority attitude with that of Scotland as a whole: A nation proud of itself yet also comfortable and proud of it's more than substantial role in the UK.

But then, we'll all have to wait and see for what the referendum brings in hindsight.
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CFL2013
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)

My concern is the damage that this bile will create.
I've started to wonder that too, Salmond is usually such an effective politician but he's making an absolute mess out of this. Marginals won't vote for him because he is giving the impression that he is completely out of his depth. He is being made to look ridiculous every time he opens his mouth.

But perhaps he's playing a longer game than we realise and he's trying to open a box that cannot be shut again by damaging relations between Scotland and rUK permenantly?

Or is it even more basic (and despiciable) than that and he has realised that, with an independent Scotland, there isn't much need for a Scottish nationalist party? :-)

Don't know if this has been posted on here before but it's a very well argued demolition on the Yes Campaigns position at the moment:

http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpre...ncy-nightmare/

The guy's a Unionist, but also Prof of Law at Glasgow University
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by CFL2013)
I've started to wonder that too, Salmond is usually such an effective politician but he's making an absolute mess out of this. Marginals won't vote for him because he is giving the impression that he is completely out of his depth. He is being made to look ridiculous every time he opens his mouth.

But perhaps he's playing a longer game than we realise and he's trying to open a box that cannot be shut again by damaging relations between Scotland and rUK permenantly?

Or is it even more basic (and despiciable) than that and he has realised that, with an independent Scotland, there isn't much need for a Scottish nationalist party? :-)

Don't know if this has been posted on here before but it's a very well argued demolition on the Yes Campaigns position at the moment:

http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpre...ncy-nightmare/

The guy's a Unionist, but also Prof of Law at Glasgow University
He's not that effective. He's just surrounded by dross. You're average MSP is on the same level as a councillor.
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Libertatem
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David Bowie trying to lecture Scots whilst not even bothering to show up in the UK to lecture us in person is laughable. What a ****ing ******* he is.


"Oh look, an irrelevant Englishman who hasn't lived in the UK for 14 years told us to vote no, we MUST do it now!!!"

**** off.
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CFL2013
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
He's not that effective. He's just surrounded by dross. You're average MSP is on the same level as a councillor.
He got the referendum called tbf ;-)
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by CFL2013)
He got the referendum called tbf ;-)
He got a referendum in an issue that he knows he can't win and having to ask a question that he doesn't want to ask.

It was in the SNPs manifesto to have a referendum. Westminster was never going to stop that.

Watch the Scottish Parliament channel and stand by to be amazed at the level of mediocrity and dullness.
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Libertatem
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
He got a referendum in an issue that he knows he can't win and having to ask a question that he doesn't want to ask.

It was in the SNPs manifesto to have a referendum. Westminster was never going to stop that.

Watch the Scottish Parliament channel and stand by to be amazed at the level of mediocrity and dullness.
Where do you live?
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Libertatem)
Where do you live?
Edinburgh
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Libertatem
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Edinburgh
For one so dead against Scotland governing itself, you're truly making a good case for us having enough control as it is.

(mediocre and dull, was it?)
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