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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    What's the betting that China have guaranteed the personal safety of Kim and his miserable family? That they have secure offers of a place in China if the whole thing collapses or is invaded/destroyed? It's easy to picture a Chinese military plane on permanent standby on a runway near the presidential palace or that rather nice golf course/spa where they spend most of their time when not running around military bases threatening people.
    China are trying to distance themselves from how North Korea are currently acting, they know protecting him would seriously anger the US and not provide much benefit for themselves.
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    (Original post by Highlander03)
    More rhetoric? Your thoughts?

    http://rt.com/news/north-korea-rocket-launch-663/
    I see that the Taiwanese government has become the first government to advise its citizens to not travel to South Korea....interesting...

    The fact is that Kim has to do *something* in order to save face otherwise he will not be taken seriously. It also doesn't help that they have the big celebrations coming up for Kim Il-Sung's birthdate and they always have to have a show of force for some big celebration.

    So, yes, I do believe that they will do *something*, maybe a missile test - but it is the aftermath of such a test that will be the one to watch; i.e. NK's reaction if their missile is shot down, the US and SK's reaction about the test.

    Of course there is the off-chance (very doubtful) that it's not a test but an actual attack - but that is very unrealistic, but the situation is unpredictable so you never know....

    Having said that, I will repeat again that I don't think NK is that stupid to attack - they'll be bombarded with grave retaliation (that is of course if they haven't got some secret plan/weapons which they're confident in - but that's very unrealistic).
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    (Original post by Idle)
    China are trying to distance themselves from how North Korea are currently acting, they know protecting him would seriously anger the US and not provide much benefit for themselves.
    Sure, you're correct here. However, by that emboldened section, you make it seem as if China are almost a supplicant to the United States - in fact, both nations' economies are so very interwoven and both know it - if one goes down, the other does too. In short, China isn't that far below the United States. Indeed, we can say that the US is number one and China comes in at a *very* close second.

    But I'm not saying this to argue that China would defend NK - on the contrary, I'm highly doubtful about whether either country (US or China) would be so silly as to engage in war against each other (they're effectively economic brothers).
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    Sure, you're correct here. However, by that emboldened section, you make it seem as if China are almost a supplicant to the United States - in fact, both nations' economies are so very interwoven and both know it - if one goes down, the other does too. In short, China isn't that far below the United States. Indeed, we can say that the US is number one and China comes in at a *very* close second.

    But I'm not saying this to argue that China would defend NK - on the contrary, I'm highly doubtful about whether either country (US or China) would be so silly as to engage in war against each other (they're effectively economic brothers).
    Military wise they are still not even close yet, the US would not be waging a war with China but a country that has threatened to nuke it, South Korea and invade Japan. Even China could not defend North Korea politically if the US decided to take action.
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    Would a missile test be allowed to happen?

    Surely the US and South Korea would have to shoot down any "test" just in case it wasn't a test at all.

    They cannot take that risk.

    North Korea know this.

    Then North Korea will retaliate and blame the thermo-nuclear war on American provocation.

    Kim Jung-Un becomes the new leader of a reunified South Korea. Mrs Park becomes his cleaner.
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    (Original post by Idle)
    Military wise they are still not even close yet, the US would not be waging a war with China but a country that has threatened to nuke it, South Korea and invade Japan. Even China could not defend North Korea politically if the US decided to take action.
    But NK is betting that China would come to its aid if an "unprovoked" attack (against NK) occurred. This is why NK is being "careful", so to speak - i.e. they could deliberately conduct a missile test which they know would be shot down and then wail to the hills that they are being attacked so that they can complain to China that "Look, we were just conducting a harmless missile test and it's been shot down - we're being attacked", so that in the event of an actual attack by a US-coalition, China (or so NK believes) would come to their aid.

    In any case, I am highly highly sceptical that China and the US would ever duel it out - they are just too interwoven. But of course we could have a reality dysfunction whereby China and the US goes to war - but that is so unlikely it's laughable; but I'd be bl00dy shocked if such an unlikely thing occurs this year.

    (Original post by Isambard Kingdom Brunel)
    Would a missile test be allowed to happen?

    Surely the US and South Korea would have to shoot down any "test" just in case it wasn't a test at all.

    They cannot take that risk.

    North Korea know this.

    Then North Korea will retaliate and blame the thermo-nuclear war on American provocation.

    Kim Jung-Un becomes the new leader of a reunified South Korea. Mrs Park becomes his cleaner.
    Bold part: Have you been playing too much Homefront? :teehee:

    The fact, Mr Brunel, is that the missile will only be shot down after the trajectory is swiftly calculated and it's predicted to be in the direction of SK or Japan or Guam or other. If it is not, it will not be shot down.

    We could have something uneventful and then go back to the status quo of NK holding the world to ransom every few months or so - i.e. the missile test could go on and be successful and land in the sea and then NK would quieten down after proclaiming its strength to its people. Of course, I'm not so sure that would happen. Why? Because NK hasn't been able to worm its overdue batch of aid and food out of the US yet (or so I believe)...
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    God, if I see the phrase "bellicose rhetoric" one more time, I think I'm going to jump off the Burj Khalifa! :lol:
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    We're not dead yet? Where are you Kim?


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    (Original post by Idle)
    China are trying to distance themselves from how North Korea are currently acting, they know protecting him would seriously anger the US and not provide much benefit for themselves.
    Yes, I'm guessing though that they draw a distinction between distancing themselves from the crazier policies and reneging on protecting Kim himself - it's troubling to think it, because if Kim (and the Uncle and Aunt who are apparently really in charge if we are to believe the papers) feels personally invulnerable, it will make him more rash - plainly he and his coterie couldn't care less what happens to the people of NK as a whole. However, I do think that China, in the interests of being trusted to make future alliances, won't abandon Kim or his family, even if they dump the regime as a political entity.
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    (Original post by MattFletcher)
    We're not dead yet? Where are you Kim?


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    We weren't going to be dead anyway. NK only has capabilities to reach as far as Guam and possibly Hawaii. Untested missiles *might* be capable of reaching North America, but they haven't even been tested. Even so, the UK isn't exactly a sworn enemy of NK - at least we have an embassy there and they have an embassy here (the same cannot be said of the United States).

    The UK'll be fine - it's Japan and SK that I'd be slightly concerned for (and yet they're not feeling concerned at all, apparently).
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    Something to lighten the mood:



    It's ridiculous that some of the troops are wearing platform heels :lol:

    Source - North Korea's Missiles 'In Upright Position'
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    We weren't going to be dead anyway. NK only has capabilities to reach as far as Guam and possibly Hawaii. Untested missiles *might* be capable of reaching North America, but they haven't even been tested. Even so, the UK isn't exactly a sworn enemy of NK - at least we have an embassy there and they have an embassy here (the same cannot be said of the United States).

    The UK'll be fine - it's Japan and SK that I'd be slightly concerned for (and yet they're not feeling concerned at all, apparently).
    I know, I'm loving how very few people are taking this seriously, it would be funny to see NK fire a vertical missile, and watch it land 5 feet from where it was launched!
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    (Original post by MattFletcher)
    I know, I'm loving how very few people are taking this seriously, it would be funny to see NK fire a vertical missile, and watch it land 5 feet from where it was launched!
    Sure, it would be! :lol:

    It wouldn't be so funny, however, if it was nuclear-enabled. Then SK and Northeast China would be in a bit of a fuddle. :flutter:
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    Something else to lighten the mood:





    Clearly unrealistic :lol:
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    Sure, it would be! :lol:

    It wouldn't be so funny, however, if it was nuclear-enabled. Then SK and Northeast China would be in a bit of a fuddle. :flutter:
    haha yeah, but I doubt it would be very dangerous knowing NK!
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    (Original post by advice_guru)
    I don't see why everyone is passing off North Korea as a joke when it comes to their threats.

    1) They have nuclear weapons around 5-7 kilotons, this is small for a nuclear weapon but large enough to use in an EMP
    2) North Korea can hit the US, they launched a satellite into space. If you can get a satellite into Space you can hit the US.

    Now for people not aware of what an EMP does, let me explain. EMP or Electro Magnetic Pulse is generated when a Nuclear Bomb is denoted high up in the atmosphere. An EMP can wipe out ALL ELECTRONICS.

    So an EMP detonated over the US would wipe out the National Grid, your Mobile Phones, your TV, your Cars (supposedly the car battery would be effected).

    This ultimately would lead to mass looting and a breakdown of society in general.
    OP has played too much COD, a tiny EMP like that won't even make lights flicker. Even if it did, America would react with such force that North Korea would cease to exist within an hour.
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    (Original post by Mockery)
    The problem with that is the fact the N.Korea are a volatile nation with a regime that is out of touch with the rest of the world. Subsequently, the US want rid. I can hardly see them or their voters being able to stomach giving hand outs that will prop up the Kim dynasty for any longer.
    1. They used to do that for years.
    2. The sum in question is not that big.
    3. NK regime is not out of touch, they just have a funny strategy of dealing with massive poverty and starvation.
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    (Original post by Tibbs735)
    The EMP threat to the US and the western world should not be underestimated. I encourage anyone who idly dismisses the EMP / Solar flare threat to read One Second After.

    A potential scenario:
    Remember the weather satellite they launched into the upper atmosphere about a year ago, much to everyone's annoyance? Turns out it contained a nuclear device. Not a particularly sophisticated or powerful device, but then it doesn't need to be. As the satellite passes over the US, as it is supposed to do several times in the next few days, it explodes, high above the surface of the earth. Or, maybe they hid an old SCUD missile on a container ship that was sailed to the west coast of the US, which then launches to deliver the payload.

    There is no damage from the fall out, or the explosion. The real damage is the cascading, chain reaction of charged particles descending from the upper atmosphere. The higher the device, the more widespread the damage. A similar affect was witnessed back in 1859, in Canada when a solar flare did the same thing, destroying telegraph lines and operating booths.

    This sudden power surge administers a royal dicking to the 3 power grids of the US. It would melt transformers, shutting it down. Around 1 in 10 post-1970 vehicles would be damaged irreparably. Large amounts of money would be lost (most of the world's modern currencies exists as numbers on a screen), as well as information stored electronically.

    Recovery would be impossible, as recovery is only possible when a outside help can come in. FEMA's entire resources could provide 1 meal for 1/7 Americans. Look at New Orleans during hurricane Katrina.

    The population would basically painfully contract back to pre electricity levels,(9/10 would be dead in a year, as someone already mentioned) as the current population is unsustainable.
    I'm sorry but you overestimate North Korea. You expect too much of them.

    Can you tell me which advanced country has an orbital EMP weapon right now? And yet, you expect me to believe that NK, which is a country held together by strings (those strings provided by China) is so advanced that it can launch an orbital EMP device and get it to successfully detonate over the United States and cripple the country?

    I'm afraid that all of this talk about an orbital EMP is all fantasy nonsense and, if you look up at my post of that video of the Homefront videogame, you'll see it's stuff for video-games and movies rather than an actual reality.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    I'm sorry but you overestimate North Korea. You expect too much of them.

    Can you tell me which advanced country has an orbital EMP weapon right now? And yet, you expect me to believe that NK, which is a country held together by strings (those strings provided by China) is so advanced that it can launch an orbital EMP device and get it to successfully detonate over the United States and cripple the country?

    I'm afraid that all of this talk about an orbital EMP is all fantasy nonsense and, if you look up at my post of that video of the Homefront videogame, you'll see it's stuff for video-games and movies rather than an actual reality.
    There is no such thing as an orbital EMP weapon. It is just the placement of a nuclear device that matters. North Korea has demonstrated that it is capable of creating a nuclear explosion, though it has probably not worked out how to miniaturize it so that you it could be mounted on a missile. What I was saying is that the satellite could just be a satellite built around a nuclear device so that it could be launched into space by conventional methods.

    This is not fantasy. This type of thing has happened before (Look up the carrington event) where a natural EMP has wreaked havoc on electrical systems, though the society was not dependent on them at the time.
 
 
 
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