Do you consider UKIP good or bad? Watch

lerjj
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#621
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#621
(Original post by Tom78)
I cba to quote all of you idiots but here's a simple formula for you, **** economy = rise of the far right = social stigma. Who can we blame, the Jews? Nope, don't wanna go down that road again, ahh yess the Romanians and Bulgarians, how convenient that they were only admitted into the EU last year! Let's in fact forget the thousands of Polish ex pats living here already here in favour of speculating whether these Romanian devils may or may not travel here.
While UKIP are unarguably bad (that'll get a response on this thread), playing the NAZI card is kind of a losing battle here. I'm quite happy for someone to come up with any statistics that show that immigration leads to either: unemployment/ economy stagnation. Because until you have those stats, you are making **** up to justify a xenophobic hatred of immigrants.

The Polish argument is a good defence of immigration. An awful lot of them came over, the economy remained stable (considering that this roughly coincides with the banking crash that is) as did unemployment levels. So will someone please find an example where unemployment has actually been caused by mass immigration? For instance, the number of Romanians etc going to every other EU country. ​And yet its only us that seem to have these issues? Weird, its almost like its made-up.
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InnerTemple
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#622
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#622
(Original post by RumpeIstiltskin)
How is police cooperation and a common foreign and security policy a detriment to us fighting terrorism?
Coz of the human rightz!!!
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redferry
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#623
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#623
(Original post by YNM96)
"higher health spending as people waited to visit the doctor until their conditions become worse and the government is obliged to pick up the bill using vouchers"
Indeed, and so they'll seek to increase efficiency: a study found that 41 firms privatized by public offerings in 15 countries--Jamaica, Chile, Singapore, and Mexico among them--increased returns on sales, assets, and equity, raised internal efficiency, improved their capital structure, and increased capital expenditures.
Healthcare firms?


Who is going to opt out of the NHS, private healthcare already fob expensive procedures off on them
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YNM96
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#624
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#624
(Original post by redferry)
Healthcare firms?


Who is going to opt out of the NHS, private healthcare already fob expensive procedures off on them
UKIP could use incentives to encourage healthcare firms to lower prices.
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RobertsClan
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#625
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#625
(Original post by NathalieGW)
UKIP are good, we'll have billions more from not being in the EU and we might just have a chance to fight against the terroism and immigration problems.
It doesn't cost us billions being a member of the EU in fact we receive much more money to subsidise things like back to work programmes, training and money to reduce pollution from agriculture are just a few.

Not being in the EU won't help fighting terrorism either. I'm afraid anyone suggesting all UKIP stands for isn't able to see the bigger picture. UKIP are just the BNP in suits, an interview with the founder of UKIP was in the Guardian newspaper he left the party because of the racism and prejudice in the party and the desire that many members of the party, including Nigel Farage had to recruit BNP candidates to UKIP.

I also find it ironic that he doesn't want to allow European immigrants into the UK but his wife is German. Doesn't that make her an immigrant?


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Welsh Bluebird
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#626
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#626
So much mistruths about UKIP and UKIP policy in this thread it's painful. No point arguing with those who refuse to acknowledge truths.
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Commercial Paper
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#627
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#627
(Original post by RobertsClan)
It doesn't cost us billions being a member of the EU in fact we receive much more money to subsidise things like back to work programmes, training and money to reduce pollution from agriculture are just a few.

Not being in the EU won't help fighting terrorism either. I'm afraid anyone suggesting all UKIP stands for isn't able to see the bigger picture. UKIP are just the BNP in suits, an interview with the founder of UKIP was in the Guardian newspaper he left the party because of the racism and prejudice in the party and the desire that many members of the party, including Nigel Farage had to recruit BNP candidates to UKIP.

I also find it ironic that he doesn't want to allow European immigrants into the UK but his wife is German. Doesn't that make her an immigrant?


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He does want to allow European immigrants. But he wants control on volume and quality. Why reject an Indian engineer in favour of limitless unskilled immigration? So since he wants quantity and quality control I don't see how the wife thing is relevant. Seems to be a common straw man people use to distort the argument.

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RobertsClan
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#628
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#628
(Original post by will2348)
He does want to allow European immigrants. But he wants control on volume and quality. Why reject an Indian engineer in favour of limitless unskilled immigration? So since he wants quantity and quality control I don't see how the wife thing is relevant. Seems to be a common straw man people use to distort the argument.

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Assuming that his wife isn't one of the unskilled and can add value to the country. However she's paid through his expenses as his PA I'm sure there are plenty of unemployed British nationals that could also fulfil that position. It's not a way of distorting the argument but shows the hypocrisy of everything he says he stands for.


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Commercial Paper
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#629
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#629
(Original post by RobertsClan)
Assuming that his wife isn't one of the unskilled and can add value to the country. However she's paid through his expenses as his PA I'm sure there are plenty of unemployed British nationals that could also fulfil that position. It's not a way of distorting the argument but shows the hypocrisy of everything he says he stands for.


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His wife obviously is skilled fulfilling the role she does for him.

What British person who isn't his wife would brief him at 3am in his house? Dealing with confidential and sensitive information relating to him and his party? His wife would get the job assuming she applied as she is most suited. So that's just a ridiculous line of and weak argument to follow.

He wants to get rid of expenses and in fact exposed the whole thing in the first place when he did a video about earning as much as those at Goldman Sachs on EU expenses.

The fact people even discuss his wife shows how much the argument about the actual issues has been lost.

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Burridge
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#630
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#630
(Original post by Welsh Bluebird)
So much mistruths about UKIP and UKIP policy in this thread it's painful. No point arguing with those who refuse to acknowledge truths.
Why don't you enlighten us all then?
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Welsh Bluebird
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#631
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#631
(Original post by Burridge)
Why don't you enlighten us all then?
Why don't you actually read what is known of their policies and what Farage actually says as opposed to surmising what UKIP is about?

My concern now is the Greens as the EU elections are pretty much done and dusted. Nothing I say will influence people. I urge everyone to ignore the crap often posted on TSR and to print off actual policies and then using highlighters highlight those you agree with green and those you don't red. Those you're indifferent to yellow. Then you'll come to your own conclusions.

The EU elections were of course important so had to vote UKIP in them as they support my stance on the EU as a political establishment. The general elections I know the greens have no chance but that's who will get my vote. Had this been pre EU elections yes I would enlighten you but there really is no point now.

The EU election ship has sailed. What happens now is down to those in EU debates and elsewhere in politics. The eurosceptics have done their bit across Europe giving them a louder voice.

Its time to withdraw from the EU and become a socialist country that works in the nations and peoples interests first. Pure socialism will never work with an open door policy to Europe.
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Burridge
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#632
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#632
(Original post by Welsh Bluebird)
Why don't you actually read what is known of their policies and what Farage actually says as opposed to surmising what UKIP is about?

My concern now is the Greens as the EU elections are pretty much done and dusted. Nothing I say will influence people. I urge everyone to ignore the crap often posted on TSR and to print off actual policies and then using highlighters highlight those you agree with green and those you don't red. Those you're indifferent to yellow. Then you'll come to your own conclusions.

The EU elections were of course important so had to vote UKIP in them as they support my stance on the EU as a political establishment. The general elections I know the greens have no chance but that's who will get my vote. Had this been pre EU elections yes I would enlighten you but there really is no point now.

The EU election ship has sailed. What happens now is down to those in EU debates and elsewhere in politics. The eurosceptics have done their bit across Europe giving them a louder voice.

Its time to withdraw from the EU and become a socialist country that works in the nations and peoples interests first. Pure socialism will never work with an open door policy to Europe.
I know a fair bit about UKIP policies, to be honest. I haven't surmised anything. I just wanted to know which policies you believe to be commonly misconceived. Perhaps you ought to do a little bit of research before you snap like that next time ...
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Welsh Bluebird
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#633
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#633
(Original post by Burridge)
I know a fair bit about UKIP policies, to be honest. I haven't surmised anything. I just wanted to know which policies you believe to be commonly misconceived. Perhaps you ought to do a little bit of research before you snap like that next time ...
Snap? This is just a forum. The fact you believe I get even remotely emotional over anything posted on here is laughable.

By the way, where did I state your surmised or single you out for it? I wasn't even referring to you at that point yet you assumed I was. Get over yourself darling, I am not talking about you.

As for going on to explain I will do if the posters in question ask. You are not one of them so I am not going to do so as quite frankly its none of your business. You weren't mentioned yet took it upon yourself to jump in.

Perhaps you should take a step back and stop jumping in and thinking everything is about you before responding to people who quite frankly couldn't care less.

:lol:
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Burridge
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#634
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#634
(Original post by Welsh Bluebird)
Snap? This is just a forum. The fact you believe I get even remotely emotional over anything posted on here is laughable.

By the way, where did I state your surmised or single you out for it? I wasn't even referring to you at that point yet you assumed I was. Get over yourself darling, I am not talking about you.

As for going on to explain I will do if the posters in question ask. You are not one of them so I am not going to do so as quite frankly its none of your business. You weren't mentioned yet took it upon yourself to jump in.

Perhaps you should take a step back and stop jumping in and thinking everything is about you before responding to people who quite frankly couldn't care less.

:lol:
My mistake. I just presumed that with you saying ...

(Original post by Welsh Bluebird)
Why don't you actually read what is known of their policies and what Farage actually says as opposed to surmising what UKIP is about?
... that you were referring to me (emphasis on "why don't you"). How foolish of me!

:rolleyes:
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RobertsClan
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#635
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#635
(Original post by will2348)
His wife obviously is skilled fulfilling the role she does for him.

What British person who isn't his wife would brief him at 3am in his house? Dealing with confidential and sensitive information relating to him and his party? His wife would get the job assuming she applied as she is most suited. So that's just a ridiculous line of and weak argument to follow.

He wants to get rid of expenses and in fact exposed the whole thing in the first place when he did a video about earning as much as those at Goldman Sachs on EU expenses.

The fact people even discuss his wife shows how much the argument about the actual issues has been lost.

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And yet he still claims expenses!


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geokinkladze
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#636
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#636
(Original post by Tom78)
, **** economy = rise of the far right = social stigma
so how do you explain Greece? which is entirely the opposite (a lurch to the left). See, formulas like yours don't work.

A $%** economy? Do you have any idea what happened to the Weimar Republic? I'm guessing you don't as otherwise you wouldn't make the comparison. Comparing our economy to theirs is like comparing some youths knocking over your bin to the situation in Ukraine.
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geokinkladze
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#637
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#637
(Original post by RobertsClan)
UKIP are just the BNP in suits, an interview with the founder of UKIP was in the Guardian newspaper he left the party because of the racism and prejudice in the party and the desire that many members of the party, including Nigel Farage had to recruit BNP candidates to UKIP.
Would you like me to regail you with stories of people leaving, for example, the labour party over accusations of racism.

Which party prohibits members of the BNP from joining them, Labour or UKIP?
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geokinkladze
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#638
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#638
(Original post by RobertsClan)
And yet he still claims expenses!
It's more that he gets allowances, but the principle I guess is still the same. He has in the past alluded to the fact he want's to bring down the system from within.

I guess anti-capitalists who work for large multi-national organisations don't get that criticism thrown at them, because when they are "protesting the pro-facist capitalist establishment" they do so with a scarf around their face, or a mask on.

I guess it avoids the awkward questions back in the office.
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geokinkladze
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#639
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#639
(Original post by redferry)
Healthcare firms?
So are you against private companies providing goods/services paid for by the NHS?
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geokinkladze
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#640
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#640
(Original post by RobertsClan)
It doesn't cost us billions being a member of the EU in fact we receive much more money to subsidise things like back to work programmes, training and money to reduce pollution from agriculture are just a few.
For those things you've mentioned, for every £1 we pay in, we get 40p back.

Our Gross contribution is £15bn, our net is £9bn, meaning we are returned £6bn.

I've been on a surestart course (funded by the EU). The paperwork is unbelievable, a two day course with half a day set aside for filling out forms and taking photographic evidence.
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