The Commons Bar Mk XIII - MHoC Chat Thread

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Four things that unis think matter more than league tables 08-12-2016
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Given that Miliband gained 3% of the English vote and was the 4th best performing loser since WW2 it was in hindsight incredibly stupid to replace him with the options available to you.

    Hell, at this point you should be calling for his return.
    I'd accept him as a compromise candidate tbh

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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Normally I would but I am about to head off on my holiday.
    You have said that deserving female MPs have been elected but at what cost to other capable MPs who are passed over just because they aren't born the right sex to gain this privilege, no matter how you phrase it you are giving advantages to women.

    It is interesting how much you say the party you support has a deep rooted sexism within, why do you want to associate yourself with a group you believe is sexist?

    You should start looking past a persons gender and whether they are the best for the job, maybe the fact that labour has stopped looking for the best is part of the reason they are currently in a crisis.
    I'm on my holiday.

    Other capable individuals have the opportunity to compete for seats in other constituencies where studies suggest their sex gives them an advantage over equally competent female candidates. All forms of positive discrimination (most of which I don't support) are temporary, transformative policies anyway - and you can't make an omelette without at least piercing tiny holes in a few eggs.

    Should I deny sexism so that I can still be 'associated' with who I want to be they way you presumably do all Donald Trump's faults? I'm talking about reality here. So despite initially being deeply against the principle I changed my views when I saw the results and spoke to a politics lecturer who'd done research on the field.

    A meaningless cheap shot, obviously irrelevant which, if you actually believe has credence reflects poorly on your understanding of politics. But, if only to humour you, I'll remind you that Labour does look for and select the best. Unless you believe that finding the best naturally means rows and rows of men.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Given that Miliband gained 3% of the English vote and was the 4th best performing loser since WW2 it was in hindsight incredibly stupid to replace him with the options available to you.

    Hell, at this point you should be calling for his return.
    So odd to see someone else defend Miliband's performance. He only just came behind Blair in terms of number of votes in England, beat Brown's England result, and the rise of the SNP is hardly to blame on Miliband, although I do think it is reasonable to say we may have held a few more seats had he handled the referendum better.

    Also I could be wrong but I would guess two of the people ahead of Miliband would be Attlee (who won the popular vote in 1951 but lost on seats) and Heath (who also won the popular vote in Feburary 1974, but had less seats than Labour who formed a minority Government). Unsure who the other person could be.
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    So odd to see someone else defend Miliband's performance. He only just came behind Blair in terms of number of votes in England, beat Brown's England result, and the rise of the SNP is hardly to blame on Miliband, although I do think it is reasonable to say we may have held a few more seats had he handled the referendum better.

    Also I could be wrong but I would guess two of the people ahead of Miliband would be Attlee (who won the popular vote in 1951 but lost on seats) and Heath (who also won the popular vote in Feburary 1974, but had less seats than Labour who formed a minority Government). Unsure who the other person could be.
    Neil Kinnock in 1992 perhaps?
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    (Original post by RayApparently)
    I'm on my holiday. .
    Have a good break- hope you are travelling in a sustainable way.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Smith doesn't like democracy.
    That's okay with me, not like he ever had a chance of winning anyway....


    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Neil Kinnock in 1992 perhaps?
    'We're alright, we're alright, we're alright....'
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    Neil Kinnock in 1992 perhaps?
    Perhaps, I hadn't thought of Kinnock
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Perhaps, I hadn't thought of Kinnock
    Kinnock deserves far more credit than he gets. He took the Labour Party from the brink of extinction and made them relevant again. In 87 and 92 he won plenty of seats back and he also turned many tory safe seats into marginals which Blair was able to sweep in 1997.

    He also had to face a ferocious media campaign against him akin to the one against Miliband.

    Labour needs someone like that now.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Kinnock deserves far more credit than he gets. He took the Labour Party from the brink of extinction and made them relevant again. In 87 and 92 he won plenty of seats back and he also turned many tory safe seats into marginals which Blair was able to sweep in 1997.

    He also had to face a ferocious media campaign against him akin to the one against Miliband.

    Labour needs someone like that now.

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    If Corbyn does not lose, the Labour Party will need another Kinnock in the future...
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    If Corbyn does not lose, the Labour Party will need another Kinnock in the future...
    They will.
    I just think Kinnock shouldn't be deemed as the failure many people view him as when he made a divided, unelectable labour party relevant again and brought them within touching distance of power.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    They will.
    I just think Kinnock shouldn't be deemed as the failure many people view him as when he made a divided, unelectable labour party relevant again and brought them within touching distance of power.

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    He gained a few percent so did well. Most losers lose vote share as do most governments, only 6 incumbents have managed it.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    He gained a few percent so did well. Most losers lose vote share as do most governments, only 6 incumbents have managed it.
    With regards to Miliband, what people often forget is that he actually won Labour a million more votes than they got in 2010. What really did it for him was Scotland, which wasn't his fault at all.

    The SNP landslide meant Labour couldn't pick up it's usual 40 seats in Scotland, which meant a coalition with the SNP would have been inevitable. The Tories were able to effectively campaign against the threat of the SNP, portraying Miliband as being in Salmond's pocket and that in my opinion had an effect in Lib Dem- Tory marginals.


    It's also noticeable now just how well Miliband did to keep the party fairly united.


    In your opinion, had Scottish nationalism not took off like it did and Labour kept Scotland, do you think that would have changed the outcome of any marginals in England?
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    Interesting comments regarding Fox and exports.. He's not wrong though.
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    Justice4Health taking government to court.

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    Just as you think things can't get any worse for Scottish Labour....

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...ottish_Labour/
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Just as you think things can't get any worse for Scottish Labour....

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...ottish_Labour/
    I don't know, what about Emily Thornberry who doesn't appear to know what sexism, or indeed who her counterparts are? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37332287

    Thornberry is a prime example of someone whose actions actually hinder feminism, through hiding behind the label of 'sexism' simply to avoid admitting that she doesn't know what she's talking about.
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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Just as you think things can't get any worse for Scottish Labour....

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1...ottish_Labour/
    No way does Galloway get re-admitted. Not in a million years. I know we've gone full stupid but even we couldn't get that stupid.

    (Original post by toronto353)
    I don't know, what about Emily Thornberry who doesn't appear to know what sexism, or indeed who her counterparts are? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37332287

    Thornberry is a prime example of someone whose actions actually hinder feminism, through hiding behind the label of 'sexism' simply to avoid admitting that she doesn't know what she's talking about.
    She's a joke. Too many of our female MPs seem to think their gender puts them beyond question. Get parachuted into a safe seat they'd reallllly have to go some to lose, never face a serious electoral challenge and throw their toys out of the pram when anyone so much as hints at reselection to at least let local members have their say. Pathetic.
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    I know trying to get people interested in debating about the junior contract debate is like drawing blood from a stone, but shall we have some insightful analysis of this;

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ior-doctors-s/

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    Dave is resigning as an MP...
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    Cameron is resigning and boundary changes look set to have gotten rid of both Corbyn and Osbourne's seats. Yet Trump is still top news on the guardian.
 
 
 
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