Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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flugelr
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#6521
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#6521
Pretty disturbing article in the news today. On the isle of Islay the postmaster has been harrassed because of his membership of 'Better Together'. The really worrying thing isn't the harrassment (which is bad enough), but the way 'Yes Scotland' have reacted:
A Yes Scotland spokesman last night said that local community groups such as Islay’s are not closely affiliated to the main campaign. He insisted that the youths were “not acting as Yes supporters” when they entered Mr Redman’s shop, and said that the postmaster “has an axe to grind”.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/461...in-Post-Office

Rather than just denouncing the harrassment and saying that it isn't acceptable, Yes Scotland decide to attempt to smear the guy? So basically, if you are being harrassed for your political views then it is your own fault?

Where do we live, f***ing Zimbabwe? How on earth is that considered an acceptable response?
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EddyEagal
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#6522
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#6522
Hey CartoonHeart

I hope this doesn't come across as overly self-absorbed, but I have recently sat this controlled assessment myself. It was only 10% of my final Citizenship grade, but was examined in the hall and was all taken very seriously. I received an A* in the assessment, with a drop of just one mark.

If you want to drop me a PM, I'll happily help you out

I argued that Scottish Independent is a flawed prospect, a prospect that is mainly fuelled by Alex Salmond's biased and patriotic rhetoric. One of my main points was:

Independence grants Scotland the ownership of the North Sea oil and gas. While the North Sea contents unquestionably will provide Scotland with some financial cushioning, I question and raise doubt surrounding the longevity of this source of capital. Fifty so years down the line, the contents will be used. With the North Sea providing the main source of finance for an independent Scotland, once it's been used, the country will find themselves in a spot of trouble. An eventual lack of finance could result in Scotland having to cut back on free health care and other public transport to avoid a total recession. These cuts would directly affect the lives of the Scottish in a negative manner, which in turn, really makes the whole prospect of independence useless. What is the point of becoming an Independent country, if in the long term, the country's citizens will only see a poorer way of life?

Just something to give some thought.
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VladThe1mpaler
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#6523
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#6523
(Original post by flugelr)
Pretty disturbing article in the news today. On the isle of Islay the postmaster has been harrassed because of his membership of 'Better Together'. The really worrying thing isn't the harrassment (which is bad enough), but the way 'Yes Scotland' have reacted:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/461...in-Post-Office

Rather than just denouncing the harrassment and saying that it isn't acceptable, Yes Scotland decide to attempt to smear the guy? So basically, if you are being harrassed for your political views then it is your own fault?

Where do we live, f***ing Zimbabwe? How on earth is that considered an acceptable response?
If the harassment is as bad as it is described in that article then the guy should go to the police instead of running to the papers to try and smear the yes campaign.
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Good bloke
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#6524
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#6524
This is an interesting development:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26362321

Now, let's be clear, the headline is a bit misleading and that isn't the story - the company could move to Shanghai, after all. The story is that an important employer in the financial sector is (a) publically making contingency plans (both reflecting and creating doubts) and (b) concerned about the lack of a contingency plan for an independent Scotland's currency. The SNP would be foolish to let such doubts fester, and should present a sensible alternative to sterling. The ridiculously over-long referendum period is itself hampering Scotland (and the UK).
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Good bloke
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#6525
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#6525
(Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
If the harassment is as bad as it is described in that article then the guy should go to the police instead of running to the papers to try and smear the yes campaign.
Maybe he thinks a criminal conviction for the perpetrator would have unfortunate longer term implications for all concerned that this alternative won't? For a party that uses the word "bully" so readily, the SNP is singularly remiss in not using it about this situation.
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Quady
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#6526
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#6526
(Original post by EddyEagal)
Hey CartoonHeart

I hope this doesn't come across as overly self-absorbed, but I have recently sat this controlled assessment myself. It was only 10% of my final Citizenship grade, but was examined in the hall and was all taken very seriously. I received an A* in the assessment, with a drop of just one mark.

If you want to drop me a PM, I'll happily help you out

I argued that Scottish Independent is a flawed prospect, a prospect that is mainly fuelled by Alex Salmond's biased and patriotic rhetoric. One of my main points was:

Independence grants Scotland the ownership of the North Sea oil and gas. While the North Sea contents unquestionably will provide Scotland with some financial cushioning, I question and raise doubt surrounding the longevity of this source of capital. Fifty so years down the line, the contents will be used. With the North Sea providing the main source of finance for an independent Scotland, once it's been used, the country will find themselves in a spot of trouble. An eventual lack of finance could result in Scotland having to cut back on free health care and other public transport to avoid a total recession. These cuts would directly affect the lives of the Scottish in a negative manner, which in turn, really makes the whole prospect of independence useless. What is the point of becoming an Independent country, if in the long term, the country's citizens will only see a poorer way of life?

Just something to give some thought.
Do you realise how old the OP is?

So your arguement was you didn't see what would replace oil/gas revenues from 2060?

You realise in 1960 the oil/gas revenues weren't predicted 2010?

Economic forecasts that far off are a bit mad surely...

ie when Scotland invents and becomes the tech hub for teleportation, there will be plenty of money
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Chillaxer
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#6527
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#6527
(Original post by Midlander)
Where do you get this idea that England is tantamount to RUK? Have you got Nicola Sturgeon's atlas?


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RUK? I didn't say England was tantamount to it, I said that a UK of England, Wales and NI would be significantly weakened and not as credible, it would fuel Irish republicanism, I'm not repeeating the point again and denying something I didn;t say again. What's the point?
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Midlander
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#6528
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#6528
(Original post by Chillaxer)
RUK? I didn't say England was tantamount to it, I said that a UK of England, Wales and NI would be significantly weakened and not as credible, it would fuel Irish republicanism, I'm not repeeating the point again and denying something I didn;t say again. What's the point?
You said that lots of English people oppose Scottish independence but don't comment on Wales or NI.


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MatureStudent36
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#6529
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#6529
I'm sensing the cyberNats aka the national collective have given up on this thread now
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L i b
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#6530
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#6530
(Original post by Midlander)
I would imagine atheism will make your points redundant. A fictional being will not make me want to leave or stay.
Being a Protestant or a Catholic in Northern Ireland and parts of Scotland has very little to do with a belief in God.
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Midlander
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#6531
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#6531
(Original post by L i b)
Being a Protestant or a Catholic in Northern Ireland and parts of Scotland has very little to do with a belief in God.
That makes absolutely no sense.


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Jordooooom
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#6532
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#6532
(Original post by Midlander)
That makes absolutely no sense.


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Yes it does, the difference is more a cultural thing now. I genuinely do not know any self confessed Catholics or Protestants that ever go to church or take Christianity seriously.
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Midlander
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#6533
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#6533
(Original post by Jordooooom)
Yes it does, the difference is more a cultural thing now. I genuinely do not know any self confessed Catholics or Protestants that ever go to church or take Christianity seriously.
To be one or the other by definition you're a Christian.


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Good bloke
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#6534
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#6534
(Original post by Midlander)
To be one or the other by definition you're a Christian.


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But claiming you are something doesn't mean you really are, does it? I might claim to be a scientologist; but am I really? I don't thing so. Lots of people claim to be Christians but never go to church and then realise they don't believe in gods. But they won't always make the next step and call themselves atheists.
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Midlander
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#6535
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#6535
(Original post by Good bloke)
But claiming you are something doesn't mean you really are, does it? I might claim to be a scientologist; but am I really? I don't thing so. Lots of people claim to be Christians but never go to church and then realise they don't believe in gods. But they won't always make the next step and call themselves atheists.
In which case that is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard of.


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L i b
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#6536
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(Original post by Midlander)
That makes absolutely no sense.
I'm afraid you cannot really understand sectarianism in these parts of the UK unless you appreciate that point. It's about far more than religion, and even the religious elements are often little more than a veil for a broader tribalism.
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Choo.choo
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#6537
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#6537
(Original post by Good bloke)
Not even half of Scots want to leave, never mind half of the UK as a whole.
God knows why. The union is not working. The current austerity measures are, if Scotland rejects independence, destined to push hundreds of thousands more children into poverty. Currently, we see evidence of the true extent of the damage that Westminster are doing to this country. The UK, Scotland included, needs investment and not cuts. You are right that many people do not see, or do not want to see, the union for what it is, and are going to vote no. Your assertion is living proof that many, not all, people can be their own worst enemy. If independence is meant to happen, it will happen.
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Choo.choo
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#6538
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#6538
(Original post by Good bloke)
This is an interesting development:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26362321

Now, let's be clear, the headline is a bit misleading and that isn't the story - the company could move to Shanghai, after all. The story is that an important employer in the financial sector is (a) publically making contingency plans (both reflecting and creating doubts) and (b) concerned about the lack of a contingency plan for an independent Scotland's currency. The SNP would be foolish to let such doubts fester, and should present a sensible alternative to sterling. The ridiculously over-long referendum period is itself hampering Scotland (and the UK).
Why do you continually taunt the SNP for the length of the referendum, yet you do not criticise the no camp for not producing a White Paper on the no side? We are still waiting to hear from Labour about more devolution. Isn't it funny how it takes the possibility of home rule for Scotland, for Labour to produce more devolution?
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Choo.choo
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#6539
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#6539
(Original post by GeschichteJunge)
I'm Scottish myself and I totally am against Scottish Independence. So many people on social networking sites writing status after status, changing their display picture to "YES" is completely smearing everyone with the topic and in effect I believe it is putting people off the topic. Seeing every status on your Facebook Timeline saying the exact same thing is 'rubbing off' the idea and as a result it is preventing people hearing a real variety of reasons FOR AND AGAINST, it is as if the negatives are blurred out. I do not want to hear "oh, you don't care or are for, get off this thread." No, this is my opinion and this is what countless people I have spoken to feel and I strongly hope that all this hype will be for nothing - I believe it won't succeed.


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Why are you against independence? Independence is the best thing that could happen to Scotland. Why do you think the union works? Why are the London elite so keen to hang onto Scotland? Why don't they just let us go? Westminster only want to hang onto Scotland for one reason: money.
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Choo.choo
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#6540
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#6540
(Original post by Good bloke)
Nobody is saying Scotland cannot afford it, just that it would be better off where it is.
That is absolute nonsense. Scotland has lost about £70billion from being in the union, could have built an oil fund worth about £130billion, have an economy that is 30% bigger than it is now, not have any poverty, benefit from renewable energy, not having people chucked out their jobs because a financial crash was caused by bankers. Westminster are a joke. I, and many others, will not miss them after a Yes vote. Good riddance, I say, if the Yes camp wins.
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